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Post by Jumpyhead on Oct 4, 2015 14:30:21 GMT -5
I hope you realize that despite the fact that I am active on the forum, no one really tags me in anything. So if it looks like I'm being useless, it's because no one really needs me at the moment. However, in those rare occasions where I am tagged, I try to get the job done as fast as possible. Also, what may be okay to you guys might not be okay with the staff. Behind the scenes, we usually discuss whether this is okay, whether we should make these changes, etc. Admins only have so much time to take care of your needs, even though they try to be as active as they can. Maybe some people overlook this, but I have a life outside of the forum. This includes school and sports, and other activities that keep me off the computer. There is also the time zone problem, so we can't be online 24/7. It may not seem like this, but our jobs are probably harder than it looks.  That last paragraph I couldn't agree with more. I have said it once already; I don't expect moderators to put their real, personal lives before moderating the forum. Never in a million years would I expect somebody to do that. What I don't quite get is what you are saying before that. Do you seriously believe that you need to be tagged in something in order to for you to check things. I can understand it if somebody wanted to tag you or whatever other mod in order for you to get round to dealing with someting quicker, but there's the "report post" button for that, and I am most certain that you have full access to all of the reports and are more than capable of dealing with them. As a moderator you ought to be scanning through everything and checking for yourself to see if things are in order, you shouldn't need to be tagged in anything, unless someone specifically asks you. As for the discussions, the main topic of this all is the fact that things are seriously wrong with the level judging system, and it has been made clear to me as to how poorly it was discussed. You are probably quite right in saying that things are discussed among you as I have no idea what you are doing behind the scenes, but the whole point of this is that this entire system was not discussed properly at all. I can stress enough how inappropriate it was to make such a radical change to the forum without notifying and discussing it with everybody rather than the select few that are involved with it. Many things, not going to quote them all Since making that post, a lot of things have been brought to light and I understand your system a lot better now. Before I was making assumptions based on what I knew and I have stated that in the event of them being wrong, ignore them. The only reason why I believe that the "Level Suggestions" section, or better still, the levels board as a whole, is the beating heart of the forum is simply because such a radical change was made to the forum in order to implement it. Sure, other parts of the forum do get a lot more activity which is why that could easily be considered the same thing. In all honesty, I should rephrase what I said and change it to "it should be the beating heart of the forum". Look in "General Discussion", and although it is realted to Geometry Dash most of the time, it's usually just full of rather daft threads about rather daft, already heavily discussed topics. It also seems to be the centre of where the things closest to flame wars are, because I am yet to see one. It's a "General Discussion" sub-forum, it doesn't really have much meaning. Sure, every forum has one, and in most cases it is the most frequently viewed part of the forum, but I would never consider it the part that's most important. The levels board is a very serious part of the forum that couldn't be any more related to Geometry Dash. But that's just me and that's what I think. What others think is another thing, and I entirely respect their views. Another thing I have begun to think about is about what the moderators are actually supposed to be doing on this forum. You say that you are supposed to deal with "General Discussion" and "Community Suggestions". Many others say similar things, and I am yet to find a single moderator that claims to have some sort of responsibility for dealing with the levels board. There are moderators listed on the sub-forums, but, for example, Jumpyhead is claimed to be a moderator of that area, but he claims he has no power to move things around and actually moderate that part of the forum. Who, in reality, is moderating that part? Nobody claims responsibility whatsoever. And that brings me on to a further point. What does "Global Moderator" mean? Last time I checked it means you moderate the entire forum, not just sections. How can you claim to only have to deal with a small fraction of the forum if you are a "Global Moderator"? Or is this just another name cock-up or job allocation cock-up again, like in the case of Viprin being an admin when he clearly never wanted to be one and shouldn't even be one? It doesn't make sense to have that title if you are not supposed to be dealing with the entire forum? Either the entire staff system was badly thought through or R4ZOR literally had no idea what he was doing. The trust issues are apparent, if not quite as serious as I imagined. In fact, if we are going to be really strict as to what it is, it seems to be more of a level judge-moderator issue which is clearly being expressed between Jumpyhead and you all. It's clear to me that you don't seem to trust each other and don't get along very well. That being said, amongst mods and admins there doesn't seem to be any problems that I am aware of, so I go back on that point. Like I said, things became invalid as I learnt more things. The same applies to the ignorance thing. I think it is worth mentioning that I don't expect moderators to write reviews, but, of course, there's nothing stopping you from doing such a thing, but it wouldn't harm you all to check things for yourselves every now and again (when you have time, that's the most important thing) rather than having to be tagged. It helps massively, I know, and I will always tag when I feel a moderator is needed, but I am not everybody and there is no way that you being tagged is guaranteed, and that's why I feel this "tag me and I'll do stuff" thing just isn't ideal. If that's what you really want, then the point needs to made to the entire community that if you want something done, tagging is the solution (or the report post button if that is what's correct). You know what? I was never asked if I wanted to be a judge! I also have personal things to do, it's just not realistic to have 2-3 people judge 20 levels a day! I judge levels on my own free time, which is limited. Don't expect me to judge levels as a duty? I wasn't asked and I did it just to help around. But now I'm getting bored of reviewing and the system. Don't regard me as lazy, I'm busy too and I just don't feel compelled anymore  Wait a minute, first you were saying that you aren't reviewing because the system needs revamping, and now you are saying that you aren't reviewing because you are busy and aren't interested anymore. Which one is it? That being said though, if you were just simply made judge before discussions ensued, then the same thing that I said about Viprin applies to you as well. In all honesty, you are about as much as a level judge as I am. You have virtually no power to move or moderate things, the title is virtually meaningless because nothing was discussed and you were just thrown that title, something that could have been done to anybody. R4ZOR is desperately needed. The level judging system is simply awful, and how the moderation team works needs to be properly clarified. Certain things simply aren't making sense right now. Yes I agree with you. And just wanted to point out I am not actively judging for BOTH of the reasons mentioned above. It just gets tedious after a while. |
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Post by ~Pear~ on Oct 4, 2015 14:32:49 GMT -5
I agree with you cheese guy, but you should really stop trying to advertise your efforts to get chosen as level judge. Obviously nothing is going to happen until r4z0r gets here, which I don't understand why he is not, and please stop lashing at jumpyhead.
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Post by Cheeseman on Oct 4, 2015 14:36:10 GMT -5
I agree with you cheese guy, but you should really stop trying to advertise your efforts to get chosen as level judge. Obviously nothing is going to happen until r4z0r gets here, which I don't understand why he is not, and please stop lashing at jumpyhead. That's far from my intention. I've already stressed that many things are far more important than new level judges at the moment. R4ZOR isn't here because he has been grounded. What we don't know is when he'll be back. And I know I lashed out on Jumpyhead and I apologise for that. Sometimes if you're not told the entire situation, things can be misinterpreted. I think that case is settled now. |
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Post by WillFlame on Oct 4, 2015 15:05:13 GMT -5
Yes, as of my knowledge, Jumpyhead as level judge was never discussed properly. I guess someone saw him picking up Cinereal's thread and decided to make him an honorary judge. I can't find the thread, but even R4ZOR was confused as to who Jumpyhead was and why he was a judge. Not saying that it was a bad choice or anything, seeing as Jumpyhead's reveiwed a lot of levels, but I was always a little confused about the 'random' choice. QJrocks, if I understood what you said correctly, mods have each of their own sections that they deal with. Maybe we should change the 'Global Moderator' title because of the reason Cheeseman said above. Also, you said that part of the reason why the mods didn't review levels that often was because we have level judges, who are supposed to do that. However, there are really only 3 active level judges, one of which isn't even listed as a mod for that board: megaman9, Jumpyhead and rMan1024. As far as I know, R4ZOR and zeCookie and Cinereal have barely done any reviews, if any. Three semi-active judges are going to review all those incoming levels, plus the ones we already have? My question about how levels at the back could be reviewed is still unanswered. EDIT: Many thanks to stardust1971 for moving my reviews. Anyone notice that the fifth page of levels is gone?  |
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Post by hinds on Oct 4, 2015 15:40:50 GMT -5
I've been looking into this a bit more, mainly the activity of moderators and administrators, as well as some level judges, and I can only say that I am appalled by the ignorance of the vast majority of them.
One thing a few have already noticed is the very little attention and time megaman is giving to this system of "tag my name and I'll move threads". I have seen countless people tagging his name and only a very small fraction of them either get and official review or moved into another sub-forum. This isn't the biggest of issues, not by far. In fact, in comparison to what some others are doing, I am glad that megaman is actually keeping his promise (somewhat) of dealing with posts where his name has been tagged.
The biggest issue is what the moderators are doing. The vast majority of them are active, but only seem to be paying attention to the bits outside of the beating heart of this forum, which, yet again, brings me back to the original point I was making. It requires extreme levels of pure idiocy to bring up a system that staff are not going to be paying any attention to whatsoever. It's great that you are posting, engaging with community and moderating where necessary, but the part of the forum that requires the most attention and moderation is being almost completely ignored. We shouldn't be running into pages of level suggestions, a new level is posted every couple of hours or so, and I know I am capable of reviewing several levels every hour, and when you multiply this by the huge number of moderators and level judges it just shows how little attention is being given to it.
And that is the thing. Personally, I feel that the moderators and staff realise how much work is necessary, leading to them not taking responsibility. I don't know, I might be wrong, but the simple fact that their activity is everywhere but this all-important section can only be explained by them totally ignoring this section. A moderator should never do anything like this.
This brings me back to the point I made originally about trust, and I am going to add something to it. After discovering what is actually occuring, a new level of trust has appeared. I don't know if others will feel the same, but I'm beginning to lose my trust in this forum's staff, simply because they aren't doing their job properly. Add this to the fact that the staff seems to have trust issues among themselves, and it all adds to the fact that something desperately needs to be done, something that apparently has to be done by R4ZOR (tagging you, because I feel this is important: R4Z0R)
The last time this happened on a forum (big trust issues and massive ignorance on the behalf of the staff), the entire forum had to get together on one thread asking for a new line-up of moderators, and although that wasn't achieved, we did manage to get one new moderator, and although things aren't perfect, he literally runs the entire forum now and is one of the best moderators I have ever seen. You can look for yourselves if you want: www.rigsofrods.com/threads/115682-New-moderator-team - Jump to page 4 and 5 to see when things got a bit more heated and the moment this mod I am mentioning got his "new powers"
And according to zeCookie, he can't access the forum. That's not strictly true, he claimed about a week ago that he was grounded, and he has since been active, probably on multiple occasions. It's not that he can't access the forums, it's more he shouldn't be accessing the forums. It's most likely that he has been allowed some device of some sort that allows him access to the forum, but not something that allows him to make changes to the forum. That's perfectly understandable, and I don't expect much to happen that has to be dealt with by him until he has full access again.
This does not mean the the remainder of the staff can't be sorting things out among themselves and making their own changes. This complete inactivity in the beating heart of the forum, like I mentioned earlier, is dreadful. It doesn't take much time to write a review and move a thread, and you all seem to have more than enough time on your hands in order to do this. You just don't.
I've tagged all of you staff (those who are active, at least): carbonara <3 Drakaglin Glittershroom hinds iFresternoch ( ͡° ͜o ͡°) QJrocks Riot RyanAB Shocksidian Sigma Tundra Tygrysek Viprin @rikka Zobros @stardust1971
You are all more than capable at doing your job, that is clear, and a lot of you should know exactly what to expect from a level and should therefore be able to run the centre of this forum ever so beautifully. Just please do something, or at least let me know what you think should and shouldn't be done.
Once all of this is somewhat sorted, perhaps then it would be a good idea to see who's ideal for the job of level judge (and I still continue to say, I am here if needed)
Thanks
/rant (again) Gonna be honest, I don't view myself as an official mod. As far a I see it, I was promoted to mod status so I had the privileges to edit the demon list, since the time I got mod was around the time that it was created. Also, I think there is a team of people who were specifically chosen to judge levels which didn't include all the mods? I don't know if this changed, but as I said, I don't see myself as official staff so I don't view many sections of the forum. Also, editing the demon list is enough for me to do as it is, I don't really have time or patience to sit for an hour or more a day and look through all of the levels that get posted, however, if one of the staff does decide that I should be doing that, then I guess I will make the effort. (Sorry if I'm a bit late to this, only checked on my notifications just now :v) |
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Post by Lumpy on Oct 4, 2015 15:43:51 GMT -5
I agree with you cheese guy, but you should really stop trying to advertise your efforts to get chosen as level judge. Obviously nothing is going to happen until r4z0r gets here, which I don't understand why he is not, and please stop lashing at jumpyhead. That's far from my intention. I've already stressed that many things are far more important than new level judges at the moment. R4ZOR isn't here because he has been grounded. What we don't know is when he'll be back. And I know I lashed out on Jumpyhead and I apologise for that. Sometimes if you're not told the entire situation, things can be misinterpreted. I think that case is settled now. Dont lie, maybe you're not advertising your case as a possible judge but you can't say it's far from your intent and your mind isn't on it at all. Considering how active you are as an unofficial judge it's not inherently a bad thing to have seen the current problems with the system and think you could help make it better. Back to the topic of the thread before cheeseman here trucked in the brick walls. Would level judge applications even work? Would a series of questions and requirements be enough to determine whether or not a given person is trustworthy and active enough to be a sufficient judge? Perhaps level judges could serve in 'terms' of 3 weeks or something. So that way if they lose interest in judging or get too busy they can have the position removed at the end of their term to make way for someone fresh. And if they are still doing their job well, they can keep it. How does that sound? Poor R4Z0R, he's gonna be so confused and overwhelmed when he returns... |
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Post by WillFlame on Oct 4, 2015 15:51:02 GMT -5
That's far from my intention. I've already stressed that many things are far more important than new level judges at the moment. R4ZOR isn't here because he has been grounded. What we don't know is when he'll be back. And I know I lashed out on Jumpyhead and I apologise for that. Sometimes if you're not told the entire situation, things can be misinterpreted. I think that case is settled now. Dont lie, maybe you're not advertising your case as a possible judge but you can't say it's far from your intent and your mind isn't on it at all. Considering how active you are as an unofficial judge it's not inherently a bad thing to have seen the current problems with the system and think you could help make it better. Back to the topic of the thread before cheeseman here trucked in the brick walls. Would level judge applications even work? Would a series of questions and requirements be enough to determine whether or not a given person is trustworthy and active enough to be a sufficient judge? Perhaps level judges could serve in 'terms' of 3 weeks or something. So that way if they lose interest in judging or get too busy they can have the position removed at the end of their term to make way for someone fresh. And if they are still doing their job well, they can keep it. How does that sound? Poor R4Z0R, he's gonna be so confused and overwhelmed when he returns... Questions by themselves would not work. At all. Requirements, on the other hand, probably will. In addition to your "term" thing, we could also have a trial period or sorts where aspiring judges review levels and tag existing level judges to verify. If the reviews are good, the member can fill out questions properly and meet certain requirements (i.e. post milestone), then we can consider them for a level judge position. Also, is it possible somehow to have only the ability to move threads within a given sub-forum, or the Global Mod status has to apply for everyone? |
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Post by Jumpyhead on Oct 4, 2015 17:33:42 GMT -5
I agree with you cheese guy, but you should really stop trying to advertise your efforts to get chosen as level judge. Obviously nothing is going to happen until r4z0r gets here, which I don't understand why he is not, and please stop lashing at jumpyhead. That's far from my intention. I've already stressed that many things are far more important than new level judges at the moment. R4ZOR isn't here because he has been grounded. What we don't know is when he'll be back. And I know I lashed out on Jumpyhead and I apologise for that. Sometimes if you're not told the entire situation, things can be misinterpreted. I think that case is settled now. Yea I don't really understand what your most concerned about... But it just seems like you really want to become a judge as Lumpy said. Maybe add a tl:dr next time in your posts as well? Anyways megaman9 said that regular members can review levels too... But that makes me question the whole point of level judges! R4ZOR needs to fix this. It's obvious what needs to be changed. If it's not, then the mods should figure it out. This discussion is going nowhere tbh |
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Post by Drakaglin on Oct 4, 2015 18:23:50 GMT -5
What I don't quite get is what you are saying before that. Do you seriously believe that you need to be tagged in something in order to for you to check things. I can understand it if somebody wanted to tag you or whatever other mod in order for you to get round to dealing with someting quicker, but there's the "report post" button for that, and I am most certain that you have full access to all of the reports and are more than capable of dealing with them. As a moderator you ought to be scanning through everything and checking for yourself to see if things are in order, you shouldn't need to be tagged in anything, unless someone specifically asks you. As for the discussions, the main topic of this all is the fact that things are seriously wrong with the level judging system, and it has been made clear to me as to how poorly it was discussed. You are probably quite right in saying that things are discussed among you as I have no idea what you are doing behind the scenes, but the whole point of this is that this entire system was not discussed properly at all. I can stress enough how inappropriate it was to make such a radical change to the forum without notifying and discussing it with everybody rather than the select few that are involved with it. I don't believe it, I would just prefer it. I do scan the forum a lot, but, like every human, I do miss a lot of things. And by tagging me, you're basically signifying that I should really look at this. The reports are sent to us, and that's when we decide how we should deal with it, PM, warning, or ban. Unfortunately, I as a mod, don't have the privileges of warning and sending PMs. Only admins can do that, and there are only a couple of them that are active. So we do get it done, but sometimes it does take a while. I understand how upset you are about the level judging system, but changing this is beyond my power. I can't really do anything about it :/ sorry |
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Post by ~Pear~ on Oct 4, 2015 19:53:31 GMT -5
when is r4z0r gonna be back
we need you r4z0r
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Post by QJrocks on Oct 4, 2015 23:26:01 GMT -5
Many things, not going to quote them all Since making that post, a lot of things have been brought to light and I understand your system a lot better now. Before I was making assumptions based on what I knew and I have stated that in the event of them being wrong, ignore them. The only reason why I believe that the "Level Suggestions" section, or better still, the levels board as a whole, is the beating heart of the forum is simply because such a radical change was made to the forum in order to implement it. Sure, other parts of the forum do get a lot more activity which is why that could easily be considered the same thing. In all honesty, I should rephrase what I said and change it to "it should be the beating heart of the forum". Look in "General Discussion", and although it is realted to Geometry Dash most of the time, it's usually just full of rather daft threads about rather daft, already heavily discussed topics. It also seems to be the centre of where the things closest to flame wars are, because I am yet to see one. It's a "General Discussion" sub-forum, it doesn't really have much meaning. Sure, every forum has one, and in most cases it is the most frequently viewed part of the forum, but I would never consider it the part that's most important. The levels board is a very serious part of the forum that couldn't be any more related to Geometry Dash. But that's just me and that's what I think. What others think is another thing, and I entirely respect their views. Another thing I have begun to think about is about what the moderators are actually supposed to be doing on this forum. You say that you are supposed to deal with "General Discussion" and "Community Suggestions". Many others say similar things, and I am yet to find a single moderator that claims to have some sort of responsibility for dealing with the levels board. There are moderators listed on the sub-forums, but, for example, Jumpyhead is claimed to be a moderator of that area, but he claims he has no power to move things around and actually moderate that part of the forum. Who, in reality, is moderating that part? Nobody claims responsibility whatsoever. And that brings me on to a further point. What does "Global Moderator" mean? Last time I checked it means you moderate the entire forum, not just sections. How can you claim to only have to deal with a small fraction of the forum if you are a "Global Moderator"? Or is this just another name cock-up or job allocation cock-up again, like in the case of Viprin being an admin when he clearly never wanted to be one and shouldn't even be one? It doesn't make sense to have that title if you are not supposed to be dealing with the entire forum? Either the entire staff system was badly thought through or R4ZOR literally had no idea what he was doing. The trust issues are apparent, if not quite as serious as I imagined. In fact, if we are going to be really strict as to what it is, it seems to be more of a level judge-moderator issue which is clearly being expressed between Jumpyhead and you all. It's clear to me that you don't seem to trust each other and don't get along very well. That being said, amongst mods and admins there doesn't seem to be any problems that I am aware of, so I go back on that point. Like I said, things became invalid as I learnt more things. The same applies to the ignorance thing. I think it is worth mentioning that I don't expect moderators to write reviews, but, of course, there's nothing stopping you from doing such a thing, but it wouldn't harm you all to check things for yourselves every now and again (when you have time, that's the most important thing) rather than having to be tagged. It helps massively, I know, and I will always tag when I feel a moderator is needed, but I am not everybody and there is no way that you being tagged is guaranteed, and that's why I feel this "tag me and I'll do stuff" thing just isn't ideal. If that's what you really want, then the point needs to made to the entire community that if you want something done, tagging is the solution (or the report post button if that is what's correct). You make a good point about the "Global Moderator" title. Someone added shortcuts for stuff such as spam which tags certain moderators, that's why I sort of divided up the mods. Sorry. Also, I recently went into level suggestions to move threads. I managed to get it down to 4 pages, but a lot of the threads were either A) Not reviewed or B) Had an x/10 rating. If I knew which numbers went to which ratings, I probably could have whittled down the pages to 3, but oh well. |
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Post by Viceroy on Oct 4, 2015 23:43:17 GMT -5
I think we definitely need a more active head admin. Tbh, I see Megaman everywhere, and he always moves level suggestion threads when I tag him in them...I nominate megaman
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
But we definitely need level judges. If it is possible to limit their permissions to ONLY the level suggestions board, then that would be golden. But I know nothing about forum administration, so I have no idea about any of this >.<
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 3:43:24 GMT -5
r4z0r will be back soon though...
and how often do I have to say this: ITS NOT A MODS MAJOR RESPONSIBILITY TO JUDGE LEVELS, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE LEVEL JUDGES
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Post by ~Pear~ on Oct 5, 2015 7:05:20 GMT -5
except the level judges who the exception of jumoyhead are inactive
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Post by WillFlame on Oct 5, 2015 7:06:31 GMT -5
r4z0r will be back soon though... and how often do I have to say this: ITS NOT A MODS MAJOR RESPONSIBILITY TO JUDGE LEVELS, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE LEVEL JUDGES Like I said earlier.. There are really only 3 active level judges, one of which isn't even listed as a mod for that board: megaman9, Jumpyhead and rMan1024. As far as I know, R4ZOR and zeCookie and Cinereal have barely done any reviews, if any. Megaman9 and rMan1024, being mods, don't have major responsibility to judge levels as you said. One judge is going to review all those incoming levels, plus the ones we already have? Could everyone please stop ignoring me? |
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