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Post by jordan853 on Jan 25, 2019 4:40:11 GMT -5
I’m fervently pro-life after having been more or less apathetic towards the situation. What turned me to the pro-life side was a video I had to watch in planning 10 (a boring course everyone has to take where I live where you learn about sex stuff and jobs but not in any fashion that’s particularly useful). This video showed a few different scenarios relating to teenage pregnancy, such as the couple staying together and everything going well, the couple staying together and everything going to shit, and the mother wanting the child but the father being a deadbeat who doesn’t want a kid. Obviously the missing scenario, and the one that made me completely opposed to abortions, was the only missing scenario, that being the father wanting to keep the kid whereas the mother doesn’t. This video stuck with me so much and I really don’t know why. So it was a black couple in high school, girlfriend gets pregnant. The father wants the kid, the mother doesn’t. They discuss it and don’t come to any sort of agreement and so the mother pulls the slimiest move imaginable and gets an abortion behind the father’s back. Like this man wanted to raise HIS kid. He didn’t care if the mother wanted nothing to do with it, he wanted to have it even if it meant raising it and paying for it on his own. The kid is just as much his as it is hers and I’m sure if he even had the option to carry and birth the child that he would’ve so long as he got to raise his kid. And I was the only one in the entire class of just under 30 that thought that the mother was the biggest cunt on the planet. Literally everyone thought what the mother did was perfectly fine, and yet if the roles were reversed then the kid gets to be born because women are the bearers of the child and therefore get to determine whether the pregnancy is terminated. Yes I know this is a very specific example that I doubt anyone will be able to relate to, but it’s what pulled me into the pro-life camp initially. To this I ask, why should the women go through the pain of carrying a child for 9 months and giving birth to it when she doesn't want to? Obviously it would be nice if both parents discuss this and come to an agreement but ultimately, the man shouldn't be able to force her to do stuff with her body if she doesn't want to. The only way that I would agree with this is if both the man and woman sign a contract or something before having sex that, no matter what, abortion is out of the question. But that's ridiculous. Also you mentioned a situation where the mother is pregnant and wants to keep the child but the man doesn't. In my opinion, if you're in favour of the woman in that scenario, and against the woman in the scenario that I mentioned before, that's a bit hypocritical. For this scenario, if the woman really doesn't want to experience the pain of bearing a child, she should have never decided to have sex in the first place and if she really wanted to, she could at least have protected sex with the available contraceptions at hand. If the sex was protected yet the woman still got pregnant, it's still the woman's fault for even bothering to even try having sex as it's already common knowledge that contraceptives have no guarrantees in preventing pregnancy. Also, I don't see how it is hypocritical for incompl to support the mother if she wants to keep the child when the father doesn't but not when the father wants it but the mother doesn't. He's making a stance where in sex with mutual consent from both parties, if at least one of the parents wants the child, then the child shouldn't be aborted.
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647 posts
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Post by incompl on Jan 25, 2019 6:34:43 GMT -5
I’m fervently pro-life after having been more or less apathetic towards the situation. What turned me to the pro-life side was a video I had to watch in planning 10 (a boring course everyone has to take where I live where you learn about sex stuff and jobs but not in any fashion that’s particularly useful). This video showed a few different scenarios relating to teenage pregnancy, such as the couple staying together and everything going well, the couple staying together and everything going to shit, and the mother wanting the child but the father being a deadbeat who doesn’t want a kid. Obviously the missing scenario, and the one that made me completely opposed to abortions, was the only missing scenario, that being the father wanting to keep the kid whereas the mother doesn’t. This video stuck with me so much and I really don’t know why. So it was a black couple in high school, girlfriend gets pregnant. The father wants the kid, the mother doesn’t. They discuss it and don’t come to any sort of agreement and so the mother pulls the slimiest move imaginable and gets an abortion behind the father’s back. Like this man wanted to raise HIS kid. He didn’t care if the mother wanted nothing to do with it, he wanted to have it even if it meant raising it and paying for it on his own. The kid is just as much his as it is hers and I’m sure if he even had the option to carry and birth the child that he would’ve so long as he got to raise his kid. And I was the only one in the entire class of just under 30 that thought that the mother was the biggest cunt on the planet. Literally everyone thought what the mother did was perfectly fine, and yet if the roles were reversed then the kid gets to be born because women are the bearers of the child and therefore get to determine whether the pregnancy is terminated. Yes I know this is a very specific example that I doubt anyone will be able to relate to, but it’s what pulled me into the pro-life camp initially. To this I ask, why should the women go through the pain of carrying a child for 9 months and giving birth to it when she doesn't want to? Obviously it would be nice if both parents discuss this and come to an agreement but ultimately, the man shouldn't be able to force her to do stuff with her body if she doesn't want to. The only way that I would agree with this is if both the man and woman sign a contract or something before having sex that, no matter what, abortion is out of the question. But that's ridiculous. Also you mentioned a situation where the mother is pregnant and wants to keep the child but the man doesn't. In my opinion, if you're in favour of the woman in that scenario, and against the woman in the scenario that I mentioned before, that's a bit hypocritical. Assuming you’re question is referring to the scenario where I brought up the man wanting the child and the woman choosing to abort it anyways, because it is biologically impossible for a male to bear the child and it’s just as much the father’s child as it is the mother’s. Bearing the child doesn’t make it more the motner’s child than the father’s and it doesn’t make her the arbiter of what happens to the child, or at least it shouldn’t. As for the bit about not forcing the woman to do stuff with her body that she doesn’t want to, the fetus is separate from the woman’s body. It’s its own entity but incapable of being self sufficient as it’s still under development. Likewise, if you plant a seed and said seed begins to sprout, you don’t say that the seed is a part of the earth, the earth is merely a vessel through which the seed is able to get the nutrients required for development. And aside from that, the woman chose to have sex. I already said I’m perfectly fine with abortions in cases of rape, meaning the ones being discussed are a result of consensual sex. The woman could’ve chosen to not have sex, she could’ve chosen to use various forms of birth control, and she could’ve ensured that the guy doesn’t finish inside of her. There’s such a ridiculous number of ways to avoid getting pregnant that there’s no excuse for getting pregnant when you don’t want to other than sheer laziness. Condoms are readily available and cheap, pulling out isn’t hard to do, and you could just not have unprotected sex as well since to do so is a dice roll whose negatives far outweigh the short term positives associated with sex. At the end of the day, the woman chose to have sex and there are risks involved with that. If she happens to get pregnant and the father wants to keep his child, then I feel he should be entitled to do so. I’ve already outlined social safety nets in my previous post that would make the pregnancy itself far less of an issue as well. A man should be entitled to raise his child and I find it frankly disgusting how easy it is for women to deprive men of that right, both through aborting their children behind their backs and through the child custody courts who heavily favour women. It’s also not hypocritical for me to support the woman in one scenario and oppose her in another, which just demonstrates that you’re missing a very clear through line that connects both scenarios. I don’t care which parent it is that wants to keep the kid. I feel that if one of the parents wants their child to be born, the child should be born. Plain and simple. A dead beat dad doesn’t get to try and force a mother to abort the baby because he doesn’t want to pay for it and a pathetic excuse for a woman doesn’t get to go prevent the father from even having the opportunity to raise his child. Simply not supporting a woman getting an abortion when the father wants the child while simultaneously supporting a woman who wants to keep her child while the father pushes for an abortion isn’t hypocritical. It’s called keeping consistent values and I won’t let someone trying to pull the ****** card on me sway that in the slightest.
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3,783 posts
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Post by S3rios on Jan 26, 2019 22:04:10 GMT -5
As for the morality of it itself, it boils down to whether or not you believe that what’s inside is a life or not. I happen to believe that a fetus is a life, but accept the fact that others don’t. That’s not to say that I’m opposed to contraceptives. Hell, one of the functions of the morning after pill is to prevent a fertilized egg from attaching itself to the uterus so that it can begin to develop. The whole when does life begin thing gets incredibly hazy. I believe it’s when development begins (meaning a couple days after conception). Immediately at conception it’s merely potential life, like a seed. But back to the whole contraceptives thing, I’m perfectly fine with them. Go ahead and use whatever. There’s loads of options available and they’re fairly cheap (at least condoms are, I don’t use any of the others so I can’t attest to their price). The onus is on the people participating to prevent pregnancy if it’s something they wish to avoid. And with how readily available contraceptives are, it really isn’t that hard. If you can’t afford condoms then don’t have sex. Simple as that. The only time I’ll ever preach abstinence is if the people involved would be having sex without protection while also wanting to avoid pregnancy, because then that’s a case of taking an unnecessary risk in spite of the possible consequences. Like yeah you can go driving and not where a seatbelt (yes I’m aware it’s legally enforced so it’s not the best comparison, it’s more me just highlighting reckless behaviour) but if you get into a bad accident without one on then you’re now in a pretty bad and irreparable position because of your decision. And even disregarding abstinence when you don’t have access to condoms, you could also just not finish inside the girl you’re with. It’s not that hard to do. A guy will never be surprised that he finishes. It doesn’t sneak up on you. It’s like a goddamn sneeze. The point that I’m making is there’s so many ways to avoid getting pregnant that there’s no real reason to get pregnant if you don’t want to. Now, even though I’m pro-life I also don’t think that abortions should be illegal. Yes there are cases where I think it’s justified (rape, incest), but it’d take so long to find out if either of those were actually the case that it’d be too late to terminate the pregnancy anyways. I think abortion is morally reprehensible but accept the fact that it’s going to happen regardless of my stance on the matter. I’m fine with them being legal but I also think measures should be in place that disincentivize abortions. Like condoms are at least readily available and cheap but I haven’t got a clue where to buy any other forms of contraception like spermicide and the morning after pill. I’d assume it’s somewhere in a drug store, possibly an over the counter type of thing, but that’s only a guess. More education on both the importance of using protection and how to actually use it is also a must. Like using protection is just common sense to me but actually using it was another thing. They should teach how to properly put on a condom in sex ed. I swear it was beyond embarrassing attempting to deal with that my first time since I didn’t know if I had it on insideout and I didn’t know if I even had it on properly since none of that was ever taught to me. I was told to use one and that they can help prevent STIs and pregnancy but nothing beyond that. And implementing paid maternity leave might help curb abortion as well since now the pregnancy itself isn’t as much of a financial burden. Where I live you get half pay while on leave, and so while you will be financially worse off, at least you won’t either have no source of income or forced to work while several months pregnant because you can’t afford to go without the money. I don’t think employers should be stuck giving full pay while you’re on leave, but half pay is more than enough all things considered. With this in mind I am in favour of defunding Planned Parenthood since government subsidized abortions shouldn’t be a thing and I don’t think that contraceptives should be government subsidized either. And even if I did think that there are other organizations that could be funded that provide contraceptives without the polarizing thing that is abortion. This whole spiel also took about an hour to type out on my shitty phone, which is why I don’t talk politics here a whole lot anymore. Takes way more time than I have available. Ok so, off the bat, I want to say that I think you have an incredibly reasonable position. The most frustrating thing I have to deal with in regards to pro-lifers is usually that they don't like abortions but they also don't like any of the thing that prevent abortions, like contraception and whatever. However, I do think there are a few problems in regards to your response. I'm going to ignore your entire first paragraph because there's not really much I can say in regards to it. You're just putting forth your feelings, and all I can really do in response is put forward my feelings and I know that there's really nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. I would bring up the risk of men using this to force their wife into having the child just to put her through pain or whatever, but you've said yourself that you don't think abortion should be ILLEGAL, so that would be a moot point. In regards to your second paragraph, I have a few things that I want to say about it: 1) Framing the debate as if it's about where life begins is kind of silly. Obviously life begins way before conception. The question is more about whether or not that life is valuable. Nitpicky, sure, but I think it's important to clarify nonetheless. 2) I think your point about how easy it is to just not get pregnant is kind of useless, if I'm honest. How easy or hard it is to get pregnant isn't really of concern to me when determining whether or not it's immoral to have an abortion. Let's re-frame the argument to instead be about plastic straws. We can both agree that it isn't immoral to use a plastic straw, right? However, some environmental activists would probably say otherwise, because straws pollute the water and whatever. Obviously it would be incredibly easy for you to just NOT use plastic straws anymore. However, does that really say anything about the inherent morality of not using plastic straws? The same can be said for veganism. I think it would be pretty easy to cut red meat out of your diet (and there are other much easier things you could do as well such as not buying leather or not buying feather pillows or whatever), but does the fact that it's easy mean that it's immoral not to? I could keep going but I've illustrated my point. I agree with most of what your last paragraph said, and as I said earlier, I applaud you for taking a really reasonable (and pretty consistent) position on this. That said, there is one last thing I've got: "With this in mind I am in favour of defunding Planned Parenthood since government subsidized abortions shouldn’t be a thing and I don’t think that contraceptives should be government subsidized either. And even if I did think that there are other organizations that could be funded that provide contraceptives without the polarizing thing that is abortion. This whole spiel also took about an hour to type out on my shitty phone, which is why I don’t talk politics here a whole lot anymore. Takes way more time than I have available."So, you didn't go into much depth about this, so I don't really know for sure what all your arguments are, but I think I can make some reasonable guesses. In regards to subsidized contraception, I'm assuming the reason you don't want that is because you don't like ANYTHING to be government subsidized (I'm inferring this based on your healthcare positions). I'm guessing the reason you don't like government oversight is because of personal responsibility or whatever. In any case though, you seem to think that contraception is already cheap. So if it's so cheap, why not just have the government pay for it? If it's so inexpensive then surely the cost of paying for contraception is outweighed by the amount of abortions it would potentially prevent, no? Your other point is about abortion. You didn't give much of a reason as to WHY it shouldn't be government subsidized, other than it being "polarizing". This, I assume, means that you don't think the government should be paying for things that are controversial or that some people find immoral. Basically, you don't have a problem with people getting abortions, but YOU don't want to have to PAY for them, since you find them to be immoral. I assume that's the argument you're making, and if I'm wrong than oops. But I'll deconstruct it anyways because it's a pretty common one. I don't think that your morality should shape what the government does or doesn't do. Your tax dollars go to a lot of things which you may not find moral. Do you think that pacifists living in the united states like that their tax dollars go towards fighting wars? Of course not. But does that mean that the government shouldn't be able to use tax dollars to fight wars? Also of course not. In order to be fully consistent on the position that tax dollars shouldn't go towards things that are polarizing or immoral, you'd need to advocate for abolishing taxes altogether. And I guess if you really wanted to make that argument then you could; one of my friends is a libertarian, and he makes those kinds of arguments all the time. But if that's the case, then you should say so, because that's a whole different argument to make. Lastly, I just want to point out that planned parenthood does a lot more than just abortions, such as cancer screenings, vaccines, and STD testing. It may not have an effect on your opinion but it's still worth mentioning I feel.
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Post by trexrush on Jan 27, 2019 0:57:11 GMT -5
It took us a whole 3 pages to get to the paragraphs, nice
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Post by flash on Jan 27, 2019 2:05:21 GMT -5
I mean if we value a clump of cells so much, shouldn't we stop killing bacteria? if those bacteria turned into human people then yeah, we should stop killing them. but they dont.
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562 posts
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Post by Zendayo on Jan 27, 2019 18:50:22 GMT -5
if she dont want that baby just rip that shit out and chuck it like a goddamn football.
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647 posts
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Post by incompl on Jan 27, 2019 20:36:58 GMT -5
As for the morality of it itself, it boils down to whether or not you believe that what’s inside is a life or not. I happen to believe that a fetus is a life, but accept the fact that others don’t. That’s not to say that I’m opposed to contraceptives. Hell, one of the functions of the morning after pill is to prevent a fertilized egg from attaching itself to the uterus so that it can begin to develop. The whole when does life begin thing gets incredibly hazy. I believe it’s when development begins (meaning a couple days after conception). Immediately at conception it’s merely potential life, like a seed. But back to the whole contraceptives thing, I’m perfectly fine with them. Go ahead and use whatever. There’s loads of options available and they’re fairly cheap (at least condoms are, I don’t use any of the others so I can’t attest to their price). The onus is on the people participating to prevent pregnancy if it’s something they wish to avoid. And with how readily available contraceptives are, it really isn’t that hard. If you can’t afford condoms then don’t have sex. Simple as that. The only time I’ll ever preach abstinence is if the people involved would be having sex without protection while also wanting to avoid pregnancy, because then that’s a case of taking an unnecessary risk in spite of the possible consequences. Like yeah you can go driving and not where a seatbelt (yes I’m aware it’s legally enforced so it’s not the best comparison, it’s more me just highlighting reckless behaviour) but if you get into a bad accident without one on then you’re now in a pretty bad and irreparable position because of your decision. And even disregarding abstinence when you don’t have access to condoms, you could also just not finish inside the girl you’re with. It’s not that hard to do. A guy will never be surprised that he finishes. It doesn’t sneak up on you. It’s like a goddamn sneeze. The point that I’m making is there’s so many ways to avoid getting pregnant that there’s no real reason to get pregnant if you don’t want to. Now, even though I’m pro-life I also don’t think that abortions should be illegal. Yes there are cases where I think it’s justified (rape, incest), but it’d take so long to find out if either of those were actually the case that it’d be too late to terminate the pregnancy anyways. I think abortion is morally reprehensible but accept the fact that it’s going to happen regardless of my stance on the matter. I’m fine with them being legal but I also think measures should be in place that disincentivize abortions. Like condoms are at least readily available and cheap but I haven’t got a clue where to buy any other forms of contraception like spermicide and the morning after pill. I’d assume it’s somewhere in a drug store, possibly an over the counter type of thing, but that’s only a guess. More education on both the importance of using protection and how to actually use it is also a must. Like using protection is just common sense to me but actually using it was another thing. They should teach how to properly put on a condom in sex ed. I swear it was beyond embarrassing attempting to deal with that my first time since I didn’t know if I had it on insideout and I didn’t know if I even had it on properly since none of that was ever taught to me. I was told to use one and that they can help prevent STIs and pregnancy but nothing beyond that. And implementing paid maternity leave might help curb abortion as well since now the pregnancy itself isn’t as much of a financial burden. Where I live you get half pay while on leave, and so while you will be financially worse off, at least you won’t either have no source of income or forced to work while several months pregnant because you can’t afford to go without the money. I don’t think employers should be stuck giving full pay while you’re on leave, but half pay is more than enough all things considered. With this in mind I am in favour of defunding Planned Parenthood since government subsidized abortions shouldn’t be a thing and I don’t think that contraceptives should be government subsidized either. And even if I did think that there are other organizations that could be funded that provide contraceptives without the polarizing thing that is abortion. This whole spiel also took about an hour to type out on my shitty phone, which is why I don’t talk politics here a whole lot anymore. Takes way more time than I have available. Ok so, off the bat, I want to say that I think you have an incredibly reasonable position. The most frustrating thing I have to deal with in regards to pro-lifers is usually that they don't like abortions but they also don't like any of the thing that prevent abortions, like contraception and whatever. However, I do think there are a few problems in regards to your response. I'm going to ignore your entire first paragraph because there's not really much I can say in regards to it. You're just putting forth your feelings, and all I can really do in response is put forward my feelings and I know that there's really nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. I would bring up the risk of men using this to force their wife into having the child just to put her through pain or whatever, but you've said yourself that you don't think abortion should be ILLEGAL, so that would be a moot point. In regards to your second paragraph, I have a few things that I want to say about it: 1) Framing the debate as if it's about where life begins is kind of silly. Obviously life begins way before conception. The question is more about whether or not that life is valuable. Nitpicky, sure, but I think it's important to clarify nonetheless. 2) I think your point about how easy it is to just not get pregnant is kind of useless, if I'm honest. How easy or hard it is to get pregnant isn't really of concern to me when determining whether or not it's immoral to have an abortion. Let's re-frame the argument to instead be about plastic straws. We can both agree that it isn't immoral to use a plastic straw, right? However, some environmental activists would probably say otherwise, because straws pollute the water and whatever. Obviously it would be incredibly easy for you to just NOT use plastic straws anymore. However, does that really say anything about the inherent morality of not using plastic straws? The same can be said for veganism. I think it would be pretty easy to cut red meat out of your diet (and there are other much easier things you could do as well such as not buying leather or not buying feather pillows or whatever), but does the fact that it's easy mean that it's immoral not to? I could keep going but I've illustrated my point. I agree with most of what your last paragraph said, and as I said earlier, I applaud you for taking a really reasonable (and pretty consistent) position on this. That said, there is one last thing I've got: "With this in mind I am in favour of defunding Planned Parenthood since government subsidized abortions shouldn’t be a thing and I don’t think that contraceptives should be government subsidized either. And even if I did think that there are other organizations that could be funded that provide contraceptives without the polarizing thing that is abortion. This whole spiel also took about an hour to type out on my shitty phone, which is why I don’t talk politics here a whole lot anymore. Takes way more time than I have available."So, you didn't go into much depth about this, so I don't really know for sure what all your arguments are, but I think I can make some reasonable guesses. In regards to subsidized contraception, I'm assuming the reason you don't want that is because you don't like ANYTHING to be government subsidized (I'm inferring this based on your healthcare positions). I'm guessing the reason you don't like government oversight is because of personal responsibility or whatever. In any case though, you seem to think that contraception is already cheap. So if it's so cheap, why not just have the government pay for it? If it's so inexpensive then surely the cost of paying for contraception is outweighed by the amount of abortions it would potentially prevent, no? Your other point is about abortion. You didn't give much of a reason as to WHY it shouldn't be government subsidized, other than it being "polarizing". This, I assume, means that you don't think the government should be paying for things that are controversial or that some people find immoral. Basically, you don't have a problem with people getting abortions, but YOU don't want to have to PAY for them, since you find them to be immoral. I assume that's the argument you're making, and if I'm wrong than oops. But I'll deconstruct it anyways because it's a pretty common one. I don't think that your morality should shape what the government does or doesn't do. Your tax dollars go to a lot of things which you may not find moral. Do you think that pacifists living in the united states like that their tax dollars go towards fighting wars? Of course not. But does that mean that the government shouldn't be able to use tax dollars to fight wars? Also of course not. In order to be fully consistent on the position that tax dollars shouldn't go towards things that are polarizing or immoral, you'd need to advocate for abolishing taxes altogether. And I guess if you really wanted to make that argument then you could; one of my friends is a libertarian, and he makes those kinds of arguments all the time. But if that's the case, then you should say so, because that's a whole different argument to make. Lastly, I just want to point out that planned parenthood does a lot more than just abortions, such as cancer screenings, vaccines, and STD testing. It may not have an effect on your opinion but it's still worth mentioning I feel. I’ll attempt to be brief seeing as apparently having paragraphs in political discussion is a bad thing and just address your main points. 1. I framed the debate as where life begins since it’s a common pro-choice stance that life doesn’t begin at conception, but rather at some arbitrary point during development. As has already been said earlier in this thread, they see the fetus as little more than a clump of cells and use that as a means of justification for getting rid of it. As for your point about whether or not life is valuable, I would argue that human life is intrinsically valuable. If it wasn’t then things like murder and slavery would be completely fine because who cares what you do to another person if their life has no intrinsic value. Hence the reason why the discussion tends to be framed around when life begins. If you believe it’s a human life then you don’t get to kill it barring extenuating circumstances (rape, incest, things of that nature). 2. The point about mentioning how easy it is to not get pregnant has more to do with personal responsibility than it does morality, in that it’s the responsibility of those engaging in the horizontal tango to take steps towards avoiding getting pregnant in the first place. There’s female birth control, condoms, spermicide, and the morning after pill just off the top of my head that these people could be using, and even ignoring all of that, just don’t finish inside the girl. If you’re taking the necessary steps to avoid pregnancy then a ridiculous amount of things would have to go wrong in order for the girl to get pregnant. Ergo, if you get pregnant it’s your own damn fault and now you get to live with it. You shouldn’t need to rely on abortions to terminate the pregnancy when there’s so many ways of preventing the pregnancy in the first place that are readily available and cheap. Hopefully that explains my point a little better. As for the last bit, I had mentioned that I’d be fine with other organizations being funded that provide what Planned Parenthood provides minus the abortions. Generally speaking I’m not a huge fan of things being subsidized since I’d rather not indirectly pay for a bunch of stuff that I won’t ever use via taxes, but if stuff is going to be subsidized then I’d rather it be a necessity for some or go towards something that I’m at least in support of. Like yeah subsidized birth control in theory does reduce the total number of abortions by preventing pregnancies in the first place, so I’m not completely opposed to it, I’d just rather something else get subsidized instead. Like a close friend of mine is from South Africa and we were talking South African politics for a bit and he mentioned how condoms are subsidized but tampons/pads aren’t. I understand that condoms to help prevent the spread of STIs, which is especially important given the high HIV rate in South Africa, Lesotho, and Swaziland, but sex is an option whereas menstruation isn’t and a lot of the women in South Africa wind up resorting to less than sanitary measures due to the lack of tampons/pads. Generally speaking, I’d like to keep my money, but if the tax dollars at least when to something that’s more of a necessity rather than something that boils down to choice then I’d be reluctantly okay with it. Just to touch on a couple more points of yours, yes birth control is cheap, no that doesn’t mean I want to pay taxes so that birth control can be subsidized. I’d rather keep more of my money. As mentioned above, if something’s going to get subsidized, I’d rather it be something absolutely necessary. You don’t have to have sex, so subsidized birth control goes lower on the list. As for subsidizing polarizing things, I don’t think military funding is a fair comparison seeing as national security is a bit more of a necessity than having sex. If you’re militarily weak then you get bullied like Ukraine in the Crimea. The Department of Defense is also a branch of the federal government where as Planned Parenthood is an individual non-profit organization so again, not a very apt comparison. I still maintain that abortions shouldn’t be illegal since they’re going to happen regardless of the legality. Making them illegal just means that women will have to DIY it with a wire coat hanger and a vacuum hose. I’d much rather the women who choose to get one done do it safely where there’s less risk of infection or anything else bad happening, regardless of how morally reprehensible I think it is. Making things illegal tends to just make issues worse, like prohibition turning people from a couple beers to hard liquor. I just don’t want to pay for a woman’s abortion. I find the whole process to be frankly disgusting and want nothing to do with it.
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Post by Hexhammer / MJ on Jan 28, 2019 9:57:26 GMT -5
some old senators and house representatives are not allowed to determine what you do with your body
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Post by Sooop on Jan 28, 2019 10:25:12 GMT -5
holy fucking christ what is up with these huge paragraphs and people actually discussing abortion on a goddamn gd forum. nobody is gonna change anybody's mind nor does it even matter what gets discussed because it's outside of your control
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3,783 posts
Discord: S3rios#8978
Clans: Aether Academy, Qualia, Invertia, Gas Station, Neutron Eco, Zircon
Creator Points: 000
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Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://goodvibeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/vortex2.jpg","color":""}
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Post by S3rios on Jan 28, 2019 12:18:29 GMT -5
holy fucking christ what is up with these huge paragraphs and people actually discussing abortion on a goddamn gd forum. nobody is gonna change anybody's mind nor does it even matter what gets discussed because it's outside of your control What if we're just discussing these things because we enjoy it?
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Post by Navianya on Jan 28, 2019 13:47:49 GMT -5
Abortion is fine.
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Post by Hexhammer / MJ on Jan 28, 2019 14:59:16 GMT -5
holy fucking christ what is up with these huge paragraphs and people actually discussing abortion on a goddamn gd forum. nobody is gonna change anybody's mind nor does it even matter what gets discussed because it's outside of your control in the wise words of s3rios (link): "Who died and made you the grand arbiter of what is and isn't appropriate for the forum?"
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Post by flash on Jan 28, 2019 16:52:05 GMT -5
some old senators and house representatives are not allowed to determine what you do with your body i certainly agree on principle, but even i find it hard to decide when a baby is "your body" and when it is "its own body". for example, on the day before a baby would be born, it is essentially fully developed. would you be ok with that baby being aborted? what if at age 5, your parents decided you were too much of a burden on their lives so just left you? my point is that parents (in this case, the mother in particular) have a responsibility to take care of their child. i'm not specifically pro or against abortion, but i think that it's very hard to define the point at which a baby becomes its own being.
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3,783 posts
Discord: S3rios#8978
Clans: Aether Academy, Qualia, Invertia, Gas Station, Neutron Eco, Zircon
Creator Points: 000
Favorite Level: Transcendence by Millepatte
Hardest Demon: Mathymbol Epsilon
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://goodvibeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/vortex2.jpg","color":""}
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Post by S3rios on Jan 28, 2019 17:03:35 GMT -5
some old senators and house representatives are not allowed to determine what you do with your body i certainly agree on principle, but even i find it hard to decide when a baby is "your body" and when it is "its own body". for example, on the day before a baby would be born, it is essentially fully developed. would you be ok with that baby being aborted? what if at age 5, your parents decided you were too much of a burden on their lives so just left you? my point is that parents (in this case, the mother in particular) have a responsibility to take care of their child. i'm not specifically pro or against abortion, but i think that it's very hard to define the point at which a baby becomes its own being. Ok but you realize that 3rd trimester abortions quite literally never happen right? They're literally illegal. From planned parenthood: "Generally, in the US, abortion is an option from very early pregnancy (somewhere between 4-6 weeks, depending on where you go) until about 24 weeks. Abortions are available later than 24 weeks only in rare cases for medical reasons." (Source)
Your concerns about the baby being fully developed are quite literally nonexistent because the make 100% sure the baby has no chance of being fully developed by setting the cutoff point at the beginning of the 3rd trimester.
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652 posts
Discord: burrito1#4529
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Post by burrito1 on Jan 28, 2019 19:42:23 GMT -5
holy fucking christ what is up with these huge paragraphs and people actually discussing abortion on a goddamn gd forum. nobody is gonna change anybody's mind nor does it even matter what gets discussed because it's outside of your control "The Lounge Anything not related to Geometry Dash in any way goes here. This is not a place for spam! Visit the Nonsense Lounge for that." And like S3rios said, part of it is for fun, but part of it is probably that people like to have an accurate worldview so they can be responsible voters. I really don't see the harm in that. People might change their minds, you never know; I've had my mind changed when debating countless times. Also, why do you even care?
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