✓OPINION ON ABORTION

Yeah same bro that’s what I love about abortions.
future funk by Jonathan gd.

Personally, I'm more for it just because of how I am. I'm an atheist who's had consensual sex.

Sometimes, contraceptives don't work perfectly. Sometimes people get drunk. People make mistakes and those people aren't always exactly ready for a committed relationship with the other parent, nor are they ready for a child. A few examples are:

Teenagers
College Students
Drunks
One night stands
Druggies

I think the decision is ultimately up to the mother, it's not like the mother made a decision to get pregnant then just say

"lmao time to cut this developing child out of me."

The much more likely thing to have happened is the mother was drunk, lonely, etc. and had sex, some bad decisions were made or a product failed somewhere, and now there's a child.

Not to mention pregnancies from rape. I could never imagine raising a child as is, but raising a child from being raped is a whole new fucked up story. ESPECIALLY if you're already in a committed relationship with someone, and you just went out one night or something and you got raped.

For the moral issues, simply put, that child hasn't really lived yet. Sure, it's literally been alive, but it hasn't formed memories yet, it doesn't have a personality nor is it even aware of that fact that it's a living being yet.

Ok sure, but if we’re drawing arbitrary lines of value, then you kind of lose the right to do it with other people as well. If YOU YOURSELF don’t value a fetus more than a living baby, why do you have any right to tell other people that they can’t value it less? Not only that but if it’s 50 times less valuable to you than a baby is it really murder?

Stop being ridiculous. You’re confusing the state of being alive with being a human. An egg becomes a human being when it is fertilized by a sperm. The sperm cell and egg cell individually, while they are alive, are no more human than a single blood cell, or skin cell, etc., but you’re not committing mass murder when you scrape your arm and lose a little bit of blood.

I misread your original post. If there were 50 fertilized eggs, I’d choose to save them rather than the baby. Same if it was just 2 eggs.

“The point is that you probably value them less than already living children”

False. I believe that a single fertilized egg has the same intrinsic value as a baby, as they are both human beings.

“and if YOU get to prescribe arbitrary ammounts of value to something why can’t anyone else.”

This might be your most ridiculous argument yet. Of course everybody has a different belief system that assigns different amounts of value to each person.

A large number of people used to believe (and some, sadly, still do believe) that people of one race, sex, sexual identity, or sexual orientation are worth less than someone of another race, sex, sexual identity, or sexual orientation. And they are entitled to that belief. Anybody has the right to love or to hate whomever they want. But where I believe the line must be drawn is where they treat those people differently based on those immutable characteristics. You can assign a different amount of value to various people, but you cannot murder someone just because you value them less.

Fortunately, humanity has progressed considerably since those days, and for the most part, has agreed upon the idea that everybody is worth exactly the same. I happen to believe that each human being is worth exactly the same as the next. You might disagree with that. And that’s fine, because you have the right to your own set of values and morals just like I do. But you seem like a nice person, who also believes that every human has an equal value and should be treated accordingly. I’m going to assume that that is the case, and therefore, the only thing left to prove is that an unborn baby is a human being.

I believe that an unborn baby is a human being. Judging by your previous responses, you probably disagree with that too. But that would be factually incorrect, as I will happily demonstrate later on. But anyway, whether or not an unborn baby is alive is a matter of fact, rather than opinion. It isn’t like an unborn baby is alive to me, but not alive to you, just because I believe it is alive and you do not. It is either alive or not alive, and one of us must be wrong.

This is why I find it preposterous that a woman can kill her unborn child without being charged for murder, but if someone kills a pregnant woman, and in the process, kills her unborn child, they are charged with two counts of murder. Why is that? Because the woman values the child in the second case but not in the first? That doesn’t make any sense. As I stated before, an unborn child is either alive or not alive. If it is alive, the first woman committed murder. If it is not, the person in the second example should only receive one count of murder. Either way, the legal process is wrong. So an unborn baby is either alive or not alive, regardless of whether an individual believes so or not. And now, I will convince you that the former is correct.

So to start, what conditions do you believe an entity must fulfill in order to be considered a human? In other words, what attribute does an adult possess that an unborn baby does not, which makes the latter not a human? I’ll go ahead and debunk some of the more common responses to this question:

Age: You might say that because the unborn baby is a human simply because it is not as old as the adult. But if that is the case, at what point does it become a human? The point at which it is born? That cannot be right, because by that rule, a 7 month old baby born prematurely would be a human, whereas an 8 month old baby that has not been born would not be a human.

Size: (See above.)

Dependency: Is it the fact that an adult is able to survive independently of another human being that qualifies it to be a human? It is true that an unborn baby depends on its mother in order to stay alive. But it is also true that a 3 year old child depends on its mother and father to survive, not biologically, of course, but because he or she cannot provide food, water, clothing, and shelter for itself. And what about people with Down’s Syndrome or some other mental impairment, who are unable to provide for themselves? Or people on life support?

Location: Does the fact that an unborn baby resides within its mother disqualify it from being a person? Certainly not, because, as you just mentioned, you do not believe that a fertilized egg in a Petri dish is a human, despite the fact that it is not physically inside another human.

So, what other criteria, in your opinion, are required to be fulfilled before an entity can be considered a human? I am genuinely curious to know. I realize that this is a long post, so feel free to quote it and put your replies in bold.

I believe that aboration is fair in any situation and the mother should always get the final say. I hear a lot of people say "you're killing a human being" or "there's risks to having sex" or "you know the government sets plans up for situations like this" but I feel that if the egg has not yet matured and exited the womb, the mother still holds it as an object so they should decide on wether to abort it or not. I said any situation is acceptable to abort the child, but here are the main reasons why people abort children: rape, not mature/responsible enough, fetus could be damaging them internally or not enough money.

I’m fervently pro-life after having been more or less apathetic towards the situation. What turned me to the pro-life side was a video I had to watch in planning 10 (a boring course everyone has to take where I live where you learn about sex stuff and jobs but not in any fashion that’s particularly useful). This video showed a few different scenarios relating to teenage pregnancy, such as the couple staying together and everything going well, the couple staying together and everything going to shit, and the mother wanting the child but the father being a deadbeat who doesn’t want a kid. Obviously the missing scenario, and the one that made me completely opposed to abortions, was the only missing scenario, that being the father wanting to keep the kid whereas the mother doesn’t. This video stuck with me so much and I really don’t know why. So it was a black couple in high school, girlfriend gets pregnant. The father wants the kid, the mother doesn’t. They discuss it and don’t come to any sort of agreement and so the mother pulls the slimiest move imaginable and gets an abortion behind the father’s back. Like this man wanted to raise HIS kid. He didn’t care if the mother wanted nothing to do with it, he wanted to have it even if it meant raising it and paying for it on his own. The kid is just as much his as it is hers and I’m sure if he even had the option to carry and birth the child that he would’ve so long as he got to raise his kid. And I was the only one in the entire class of just under 30 that thought that the mother was the biggest cunt on the planet. Literally everyone thought what the mother did was perfectly fine, and yet if the roles were reversed then the kid gets to be born because women are the bearers of the child and therefore get to determine whether the pregnancy is terminated. Yes I know this is a very specific example that I doubt anyone will be able to relate to, but it’s what pulled me into the pro-life camp initially.

As for the morality of it itself, it boils down to whether or not you believe that what’s inside is a life or not. I happen to believe that a fetus is a life, but accept the fact that others don’t. That’s not to say that I’m opposed to contraceptives. Hell, one of the functions of the morning after pill is to prevent a fertilized egg from attaching itself to the uterus so that it can begin to develop. The whole when does life begin thing gets incredibly hazy. I believe it’s when development begins (meaning a couple days after conception). Immediately at conception it’s merely potential life, like a seed. But back to the whole contraceptives thing, I’m perfectly fine with them. Go ahead and use whatever. There’s loads of options available and they’re fairly cheap (at least condoms are, I don’t use any of the others so I can’t attest to their price). The onus is on the people participating to prevent pregnancy if it’s something they wish to avoid. And with how readily available contraceptives are, it really isn’t that hard. If you can’t afford condoms then don’t have sex. Simple as that. The only time I’ll ever preach abstinence is if the people involved would be having sex without protection while also wanting to avoid pregnancy, because then that’s a case of taking an unnecessary risk in spite of the possible consequences. Like yeah you can go driving and not where a seatbelt (yes I’m aware it’s legally enforced so it’s not the best comparison, it’s more me just highlighting reckless behaviour) but if you get into a bad accident without one on then you’re now in a pretty bad and irreparable position because of your decision. And even disregarding abstinence when you don’t have access to condoms, you could also just not finish inside the girl you’re with. It’s not that hard to do. A guy will never be surprised that he finishes. It doesn’t sneak up on you. It’s like a goddamn sneeze. The point that I’m making is there’s so many ways to avoid getting pregnant that there’s no real reason to get pregnant if you don’t want to.

Now, even though I’m pro-life I also don’t think that abortions should be illegal. Yes there are cases where I think it’s justified (rape, incest), but it’d take so long to find out if either of those were actually the case that it’d be too late to terminate the pregnancy anyways. I think abortion is morally reprehensible but accept the fact that it’s going to happen regardless of my stance on the matter. I’m fine with them being legal but I also think measures should be in place that disincentivize abortions. Like condoms are at least readily available and cheap but I haven’t got a clue where to buy any other forms of contraception like spermicide and the morning after pill. I’d assume it’s somewhere in a drug store, possibly an over the counter type of thing, but that’s only a guess. More education on both the importance of using protection and how to actually use it is also a must. Like using protection is just common sense to me but actually using it was another thing. They should teach how to properly put on a condom in sex ed. I swear it was beyond embarrassing attempting to deal with that my first time since I didn’t know if I had it on insideout and I didn’t know if I even had it on properly since none of that was ever taught to me. I was told to use one and that they can help prevent STIs and pregnancy but nothing beyond that. And implementing paid maternity leave might help curb abortion as well since now the pregnancy itself isn’t as much of a financial burden. Where I live you get half pay while on leave, and so while you will be financially worse off, at least you won’t either have no source of income or forced to work while several months pregnant because you can’t afford to go without the money. I don’t think employers should be stuck giving full pay while you’re on leave, but half pay is more than enough all things considered. With this in mind I am in favour of defunding Planned Parenthood since government subsidized abortions shouldn’t be a thing and I don’t think that contraceptives should be government subsidized either. And even if I did think that there are other organizations that could be funded that provide contraceptives without the polarizing thing that is abortion. This whole spiel also took about an hour to type out on my shitty phone, which is why I don’t talk politics here a whole lot anymore. Takes way more time than I have available.