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Post by Vats on Feb 25, 2022 11:08:59 GMT -5
How many levels(possible or impossible) can be built in the level editor
Assume that
1. Object limit of 80000 cant be broken
2. Max length allowed is 6 min
3. Redundant objects can be ignored. Ie. 2 copies of same objects in the same square can be ignored even if they have different properties like colour, orientation etc.
The answer is definitely a finite number, but a ridiculously large number.
But what if we remove our second assumption? Because many 2.1 levels do break the object limit.
Even then the number of possible levels is finite, just an even crazier number
Just think of it. The set of all levels in gd that can exist is finite.
This set contains all the levels that have been built: all masterpieces, recent tab garbages, altergames, quizzes and all the levels that are going to be built in future and many more
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WillFlame
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Post by WillFlame on Feb 26, 2022 2:18:25 GMT -5
The amount of levels that can exist is extremely large for sure, considering the number of unique blocks that can be placed in one square and the number of available squares. That number isn't of any practical use since almost all of the levels will be impossible to beat (due to having some variation of a wall 3 blocks tall or more).
Even if we consider levels that can be beaten, there are a staggering number of levels that can be created by just adding extra blocks or shifting them slightly from an existing level.
It's true that this set will contain all the levels that have been built and will be built, and it's similar to the idea of the law of truly large numbers. However, it's difficult to imagine how large this set really is. Even if we can put a number to it, there won't be any way to get a sense of how truly large it is because no practical number comes close.
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Post by Bagley on Feb 26, 2022 16:52:08 GMT -5
The amount of levels that can exist is extremely large for sure, considering the number of unique blocks that can be placed in one square and the number of available squares. That number isn't of any practical use since almost all of the levels will be impossible to beat (due to having some variation of a wall 3 blocks tall or more). Even if we consider levels that can be beaten, there are a staggering number of levels that can be created by just adding extra blocks or shifting them slightly from an existing level. It's true that this set will contain all the levels that have been built and will be built, and it's similar to the idea of the law of truly large numbers. However, it's difficult to imagine how large this set really is. Even if we can put a number to it, there won't be any way to get a sense of how truly large it is because no practical number comes close. well said. on top of that, we can't even really calculate this number because we don't know enough about how the free move/free rotate/free scale works. if everything had to be aligned with the grid (or, say, you can only use the arrows in the edit menu to move it to within 1/15 of a block, you can only rotate everything in increments of 1 degree, and you can only scale it in increments of 0.01x), then it would be pretty easy to calculate it. and yeah no practical number comes close but I doubt it would be obscenely large, you could probably represent it without using anything more complicated than arrow notation. |
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343 posts
Favorite Level: Death moon
Hardest Demon: Windy landscape
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Post by Vats on Feb 28, 2022 5:29:07 GMT -5
The amount of levels that can exist is extremely large for sure, considering the number of unique blocks that can be placed in one square and the number of available squares. That number isn't of any practical use since almost all of the levels will be impossible to beat (due to having some variation of a wall 3 blocks tall or more). Even if we consider levels that can be beaten, there are a staggering number of levels that can be created by just adding extra blocks or shifting them slightly from an existing level. It's true that this set will contain all the levels that have been built and will be built, and it's similar to the idea of the law of truly large numbers. However, it's difficult to imagine how large this set really is. Even if we can put a number to it, there won't be any way to get a sense of how truly large it is because no practical number comes close. well said. on top of that, we can't even really calculate this number because we don't know enough about how the free move/free rotate/free scale works. if everything had to be aligned with the grid (or, say, you can only use the arrows in the edit menu to move it to within 1/15 of a block, you can only rotate everything in increments of 1 degree, and you can only scale it in increments of 0.01x), then it would be pretty easy to calculate it. and yeah no practical number comes close but I doubt it would be obscenely large, you could probably represent it without using anything more complicated than arrow notation. Thats what i said. Its an extremely large number But finite |
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Post by Storm on Feb 28, 2022 12:24:40 GMT -5
well said. on top of that, we can't even really calculate this number because we don't know enough about how the free move/free rotate/free scale works. if everything had to be aligned with the grid (or, say, you can only use the arrows in the edit menu to move it to within 1/15 of a block, you can only rotate everything in increments of 1 degree, and you can only scale it in increments of 0.01x), then it would be pretty easy to calculate it. and yeah no practical number comes close but I doubt it would be obscenely large, you could probably represent it without using anything more complicated than arrow notation. Thats what i said. Its an extremely large number But finite 1 little fun fact, numbers don’t actually end, there is no way to count to infinity. You could theoretically (not actually) count from the start of your life to the end of it, and if you started counting from the day you were born, to the day that you die, the number you get to, there will be even more numbers above that number you counted. now an answer to this, one thing I’m taking into consideration, if you are going at the set start speed and place blocks until you reach the 6 minute mark, you can actually extend the amount of blocks you can place using speed changes. This makes it possible to add even more blocks to a level area. This number is hard to calculate because of the amount of objects you can place + the amount of boxes in the grid + the amount of different objects. This is a very large number, and I think that if the number would not be achieved because it would be too many. |
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Post by Bagley on Feb 28, 2022 13:24:23 GMT -5
Thats what i said. Its an extremely large number But finite 1 little fun fact, numbers don’t actually end, there is no way to count to infinity. You could theoretically (not actually) count from the start of your life to the end of it, and if you started counting from the day you were born, to the day that you die, the number you get to, there will be even more numbers above that number you counted. now an answer to this, one thing I’m taking into consideration, if you are going at the set start speed and place blocks until you reach the 6 minute mark, you can actually extend the amount of blocks you can place using speed changes. This makes it possible to add even more blocks to a level area. This number is hard to calculate because of the amount of objects you can place + the amount of boxes in the grid + the amount of different objects. This is a very large number, and I think that if the number would not be achieved because it would be too many. true, but you couldn't keep placing blocks forever, eventually the game would run out of memory and crash. so there IS a limit, although there's no real way of finding out what it is |
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Post by Storm on Feb 28, 2022 21:35:46 GMT -5
1 little fun fact, numbers don’t actually end, there is no way to count to infinity. You could theoretically (not actually) count from the start of your life to the end of it, and if you started counting from the day you were born, to the day that you die, the number you get to, there will be even more numbers above that number you counted. now an answer to this, one thing I’m taking into consideration, if you are going at the set start speed and place blocks until you reach the 6 minute mark, you can actually extend the amount of blocks you can place using speed changes. This makes it possible to add even more blocks to a level area. This number is hard to calculate because of the amount of objects you can place + the amount of boxes in the grid + the amount of different objects. This is a very large number, and I think that if the number would not be achieved because it would be too many. true, but you couldn't keep placing blocks forever, eventually the game would run out of memory and crash. so there IS a limit, although there's no real way of finding out what it is Very true |
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343 posts
Favorite Level: Death moon
Hardest Demon: Windy landscape
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Post by Vats on Mar 1, 2022 22:38:19 GMT -5
Thats what i said. Its an extremely large number But finite 1 little fun fact, numbers don’t actually end, there is no way to count to infinity. You could theoretically (not actually) count from the start of your life to the end of it, and if you started counting from the day you were born, to the day that you die, the number you get to, there will be even more numbers above that number you counted. now an answer to this, one thing I’m taking into consideration, if you are going at the set start speed and place blocks until you reach the 6 minute mark, you can actually extend the amount of blocks you can place using speed changes. This makes it possible to add even more blocks to a level area. This number is hard to calculate because of the amount of objects you can place + the amount of boxes in the grid + the amount of different objects. This is a very large number, and I think that if the number would not be achieved because it would be too many. No shit sherlock |
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Post by Storm on Mar 1, 2022 23:38:05 GMT -5
Why are you saying that to me??? That was kinda mean
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Post by Jayflight on Mar 1, 2022 23:38:36 GMT -5
1 little fun fact, numbers don’t actually end, there is no way to count to infinity. You could theoretically (not actually) count from the start of your life to the end of it, and if you started counting from the day you were born, to the day that you die, the number you get to, there will be even more numbers above that number you counted. now an answer to this, one thing I’m taking into consideration, if you are going at the set start speed and place blocks until you reach the 6 minute mark, you can actually extend the amount of blocks you can place using speed changes. This makes it possible to add even more blocks to a level area. This number is hard to calculate because of the amount of objects you can place + the amount of boxes in the grid + the amount of different objects. This is a very large number, and I think that if the number would not be achieved because it would be too many. No shit sherlock Hey, chill out a little, there isn't any need for posts like that. Given that this is already a moderately interesting discussion (even for people who aren't particularly fond of math, like me), it would be best to keep it that way. Being insulting to people will land you a warning eventually, and it contributes nothing to the thread. |
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343 posts
Favorite Level: Death moon
Hardest Demon: Windy landscape
Mini-Profile Name Color: red
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Post by Vats on Mar 1, 2022 23:54:37 GMT -5
Hey, chill out a little, there isn't any need for posts like that. Given that this is already a moderately interesting discussion (even for people who aren't particularly fond of math, like me), it would be best to keep it that way. Being insulting to people will land you a warning eventually, and it contributes nothing to the thread. Insulting? I mean, it was obvious |
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343 posts
Favorite Level: Death moon
Hardest Demon: Windy landscape
Mini-Profile Name Color: red
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Post by Vats on Mar 2, 2022 0:06:34 GMT -5
true, but you couldn't keep placing blocks forever, eventually the game would run out of memory and crash. so there IS a limit, although there's no real way of finding out what it is Very true Oh no offence. Here is my proper explanation 1. obviously the number of seconds of our life is finite. So is the age of universe in seconds 2. The number of blockspaces obviously depends on the speed changes. But it is always some finite quatity. And we can shift objects by 1/10 of a block space ig. 3. Yes the number obviously huge and pretty much impossible to calculate. Just like the number of chess games. (No of gd levels is much higher tho) |
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343 posts
Favorite Level: Death moon
Hardest Demon: Windy landscape
Mini-Profile Name Color: red
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Post by Vats on Mar 2, 2022 0:19:44 GMT -5
Thats what i said. Its an extremely large number But finite think that if the number would not be achieved because it would be too many. Here is a fun fact: If u begin create a level every 1 sec, using the 1.0 level editor, the age of the universe wouldn't be enough for u to build all 1.0 levels. Let alone 2.1 editor. |
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