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Post by Norbert GmD on Jan 7, 2019 8:38:22 GMT -5
I Think No Because Leaving It Open For Private Companies Creates Competition And Competition Leads To Increased Efficiency And Innovation, And Cheaper Prices And Better Services For The Consumer; And, Just Look Where Socialism Has Been Tried In Russia And Venezuela And Others, The Economy Collapses And Everyone Starves. Sorry For The Weird Capitalisation, I Am Posting This From My Mom's Phone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 8:51:13 GMT -5
I’d really like to see the USA take on universal health cars, what an achievement that would be! A major step in the right direction for transportation for everyone!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 9:01:00 GMT -5
i am actually confused
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Post by Norbert GmD on Jan 7, 2019 12:30:54 GMT -5
I’d really like to see the USA take on universal health cars, what an achievement that would be! A major step in the right direction for transportation for everyone! Lmao stupid proboards cut the title off
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 12:31:59 GMT -5
I’d really like to see the USA take on universal health cars, what an achievement that would be! A major step in the right direction for transportation for everyone! Lmao stupid proboards cut the title off how about “Should the USA get universal health care”? That title would more than fit in the limit.
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Post by Norbert GmD on Jan 7, 2019 12:34:49 GMT -5
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Post by Ezel on Jan 7, 2019 13:08:49 GMT -5
Yes. People are afraid about taxes being too high but they aren't increased THAT much.
Also would you rather pay slightly bigger taxes or pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to get healthcare in case of a major injury?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 13:13:59 GMT -5
Yes. People are afraid about taxes being too high but they aren't increased THAT much. Also would you rather pay slightly bigger taxes or pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to get healthcare in case of a major injury?Really depends on how much taxes you're paying in the first place
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647 posts
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Post by incompl on Jan 7, 2019 13:23:42 GMT -5
Good god no. I live in the one province of Canada that actually has to pay for medical and the medical system here sucks ass. Wait times are ridiculously long and walk-in clinics close within an hour of opening due to meeting their allotted patient quota for the day, resulting in the ER getting flooded with people who don’t need the ER but have to go to the ER in order to get treated because all of the walk-in clinics are closed, which just exacerbates the wait times even further. For example, when I broke my radius clean in half a bit over 5 years ago, I got to the hospital a bit before 8pm and didn’t leave until well after 1am. In that span of time all that happened was an x-ray, a sedation so that the bone could be put back in the right place (only takes about 15 minutes total including the time taken to wake back up from the sedation), and a cast was put on while I was sedated. I spent over an hour in the waiting room before I was triaged and had my blood pressure and pulse taken. The system here is horribly inefficient, which is what happens when anyone can go to a hospital for free to seek treatment for every minor ailment. And for those arguing that my broken arm wasn’t serious enough, my dad took an axe to the knee while cutting kindling and was stuck bleeding in the waiting room for almost an hour as well before being pushed through. I’ve also seen someone bleeding from the mouth due to taking a baseball to the face after it was hit by a bag resulting in several broken teeth and a cracked jaw and he was in the waiting room for over an hour as well with nothing but an ice pack to try to alleviate the pain. It’s a horribly inefficient system and even ignoring that, there’s the issue of paying for it. To the person citing the Nordic countries, they get taxed up the asshole in order to pay for all of their free stuff. Denmark is particularly bad, with its taxes exceeding 60%. It may not be easy to understand how much money this is taking from people when you don’t pay taxes yourself, but when you do eventually start making money imagine having 60% of your paycheck being pissed away in taxes, with the remaining 40% being what you have left to pay your bills and buy groceries and whatnot. On top of that, Denmark also has extremely high sales taxes, particularly with vehicles. This vehicle tax ranges from ~85% to 150% or higher. So if you went to go buy a vehicle, the total amount of taxes would result in you paying about twice the sticker price of the vehicle, and that’s before interest off of whatever loan you took out comes into effect. The taxation required to pay for this service is insane and I doubt many people would be willing to pay that amount in taxes in order to afford it. Hell, people in the 1% don’t like paying upwards of 50% in taxes because that tax amount is straight up retarded and the idea that they should pay exponentially more in taxes by right of they’ve EARNED a lot of money is equally retarded, though I do understand that a flat tax rate straight across the board would also either bankrupt the middle class if the tax rate was made too high in order to maintain funds or bankrupt the government due to the loss of funds from reducing the higher tax bracket’s tax rate. Regardless, your average working class person wouldn’t want to pay upwards of 50% in taxes, even if it meant having universal healthcare. For most people it’d just be cheaper to pay for health insurance and for those that can’t, tough shit. They’re in the minority and they shouldn’t be dragging everyone else down so that they can go to the hospital when they get a cold. Having a competitive system through having multiple private insurance companies will necessarily reduce prices anyways.
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Post by Retired moderator. on Jan 8, 2019 15:56:30 GMT -5
I Think No Because Leaving It Open For Private Companies Creates Competition And Competition Leads To Increased Efficiency And Innovation, And Cheaper Prices And Better Services For The Consumer; This is a lie. The amount of people who are forced into situations to where they cannot get the help they need because of financial barriers is far too high. It's not good for the consumer. It's anti consumer for the profit of private companies. I've seen first hand many people get screwed over by outrageous pricing and bad insurance. People's lives should not have a price. Universal health care =/= socialism. Otherwise the UK would be considered socialist, which simply isn't true.
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Post by Cuck_gmd on Jan 16, 2019 9:55:49 GMT -5
Good god no. I live in the one province of Canada that actually has to pay for medical and the medical system here sucks ass. Wait times are ridiculously long and walk-in clinics close within an hour of opening due to meeting their allotted patient quota for the day, resulting in the ER getting flooded with people who don’t need the ER but have to go to the ER in order to get treated because all of the walk-in clinics are closed, which just exacerbates the wait times even further. For example, when I broke my radius clean in half a bit over 5 years ago, I got to the hospital a bit before 8pm and didn’t leave until well after 1am. In that span of time all that happened was an x-ray, a sedation so that the bone could be put back in the right place (only takes about 15 minutes total including the time taken to wake back up from the sedation), and a cast was put on while I was sedated. I spent over an hour in the waiting room before I was triaged and had my blood pressure and pulse taken. The system here is horribly inefficient, which is what happens when anyone can go to a hospital for free to seek treatment for every minor ailment. And for those arguing that my broken arm wasn’t serious enough, my dad took an axe to the knee while cutting kindling and was stuck bleeding in the waiting room for almost an hour as well before being pushed through. I’ve also seen someone bleeding from the mouth due to taking a baseball to the face after it was hit by a bag resulting in several broken teeth and a cracked jaw and he was in the waiting room for over an hour as well with nothing but an ice pack to try to alleviate the pain. It’s a horribly inefficient system and even ignoring that, there’s the issue of paying for it. To the person citing the Nordic countries, they get taxed up the asshole in order to pay for all of their free stuff. Denmark is particularly bad, with its taxes exceeding 60%. It may not be easy to understand how much money this is taking from people when you don’t pay taxes yourself, but when you do eventually start making money imagine having 60% of your paycheck being pissed away in taxes, with the remaining 40% being what you have left to pay your bills and buy groceries and whatnot. On top of that, Denmark also has extremely high sales taxes, particularly with vehicles. This vehicle tax ranges from ~85% to 150% or higher. So if you went to go buy a vehicle, the total amount of taxes would result in you paying about twice the sticker price of the vehicle, and that’s before interest off of whatever loan you took out comes into effect. The taxation required to pay for this service is insane and I doubt many people would be willing to pay that amount in taxes in order to afford it. Hell, people in the 1% don’t like paying upwards of 50% in taxes because that tax amount is straight up retarded and the idea that they should pay exponentially more in taxes by right of they’ve EARNED a lot of money is equally retarded, though I do understand that a flat tax rate straight across the board would also either bankrupt the middle class if the tax rate was made too high in order to maintain funds or bankrupt the government due to the loss of funds from reducing the higher tax bracket’s tax rate. Regardless, your average working class person wouldn’t want to pay upwards of 50% in taxes, even if it meant having universal healthcare. For most people it’d just be cheaper to pay for health insurance and for those that can’t, tough shit. They’re in the minority and they shouldn’t be dragging everyone else down so that they can go to the hospital when they get a cold. Having a competitive system through having multiple private insurance companies will necessarily reduce prices anyways. How does Denmark spend less in healthcare (this includes taxes obviously) than private healthcare countries like the USA?
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647 posts
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Post by incompl on Jan 16, 2019 21:13:33 GMT -5
Good god no. I live in the one province of Canada that actually has to pay for medical and the medical system here sucks ass. Wait times are ridiculously long and walk-in clinics close within an hour of opening due to meeting their allotted patient quota for the day, resulting in the ER getting flooded with people who don’t need the ER but have to go to the ER in order to get treated because all of the walk-in clinics are closed, which just exacerbates the wait times even further. For example, when I broke my radius clean in half a bit over 5 years ago, I got to the hospital a bit before 8pm and didn’t leave until well after 1am. In that span of time all that happened was an x-ray, a sedation so that the bone could be put back in the right place (only takes about 15 minutes total including the time taken to wake back up from the sedation), and a cast was put on while I was sedated. I spent over an hour in the waiting room before I was triaged and had my blood pressure and pulse taken. The system here is horribly inefficient, which is what happens when anyone can go to a hospital for free to seek treatment for every minor ailment. And for those arguing that my broken arm wasn’t serious enough, my dad took an axe to the knee while cutting kindling and was stuck bleeding in the waiting room for almost an hour as well before being pushed through. I’ve also seen someone bleeding from the mouth due to taking a baseball to the face after it was hit by a bag resulting in several broken teeth and a cracked jaw and he was in the waiting room for over an hour as well with nothing but an ice pack to try to alleviate the pain. It’s a horribly inefficient system and even ignoring that, there’s the issue of paying for it. To the person citing the Nordic countries, they get taxed up the asshole in order to pay for all of their free stuff. Denmark is particularly bad, with its taxes exceeding 60%. It may not be easy to understand how much money this is taking from people when you don’t pay taxes yourself, but when you do eventually start making money imagine having 60% of your paycheck being pissed away in taxes, with the remaining 40% being what you have left to pay your bills and buy groceries and whatnot. On top of that, Denmark also has extremely high sales taxes, particularly with vehicles. This vehicle tax ranges from ~85% to 150% or higher. So if you went to go buy a vehicle, the total amount of taxes would result in you paying about twice the sticker price of the vehicle, and that’s before interest off of whatever loan you took out comes into effect. The taxation required to pay for this service is insane and I doubt many people would be willing to pay that amount in taxes in order to afford it. Hell, people in the 1% don’t like paying upwards of 50% in taxes because that tax amount is straight up retarded and the idea that they should pay exponentially more in taxes by right of they’ve EARNED a lot of money is equally retarded, though I do understand that a flat tax rate straight across the board would also either bankrupt the middle class if the tax rate was made too high in order to maintain funds or bankrupt the government due to the loss of funds from reducing the higher tax bracket’s tax rate. Regardless, your average working class person wouldn’t want to pay upwards of 50% in taxes, even if it meant having universal healthcare. For most people it’d just be cheaper to pay for health insurance and for those that can’t, tough shit. They’re in the minority and they shouldn’t be dragging everyone else down so that they can go to the hospital when they get a cold. Having a competitive system through having multiple private insurance companies will necessarily reduce prices anyways. How does Denmark spend less in healthcare (this includes taxes obviously) than private healthcare countries like the USA? The US has over 50x the population of Denmark so it’s not a very good comparison to make. They have significantly less people to support than the US so obviously they’ll spend less in total. I also wouldn’t go comparing spending on privatized healthcare to government provided healthcare. One is paid for out of pocket like you would with other types of insurance and the other is paid for via the taxpayer. You can get a higher quality insurance by paying for it yourself rather than relying on government handouts, which are generally of lower quality since it has to be provided to millions upon millions of people equally and so higher quality care can’t be afforded. Is a privatized system perfect? Of course not. It screws the poor who can’t afford it and people with pre-existing conditions will either be scalped for money or turned down entirely (though in fairness insuring someone who is extremely high risk is financial suicide and a guaranteed way to piss away a lot of money). With that in mind, I don’t think the few who can’t afford it should drag down those who can through having those people get taxed up the asshole so that the poor can have healthcare. The only real issue that I see with a privatized system is having a handful of companies with a monopoly on the system and scalping people for money across the board.
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Post by Cuck_gmd on Jan 17, 2019 13:25:01 GMT -5
How does Denmark spend less in healthcare (this includes taxes obviously) than private healthcare countries like the USA? The US has over 50x the population of Denmark so it’s not a very good comparison to make. They have significantly less people to support than the US so obviously they’ll spend less in total. I also wouldn’t go comparing spending on privatized healthcare to government provided healthcare. One is paid for out of pocket like you would with other types of insurance and the other is paid for via the taxpayer. You can get a higher quality insurance by paying for it yourself rather than relying on government handouts, which are generally of lower quality since it has to be provided to millions upon millions of people equally and so higher quality care can’t be afforded. Is a privatized system perfect? Of course not. It screws the poor who can’t afford it and people with pre-existing conditions will either be scalped for money or turned down entirely (though in fairness insuring someone who is extremely high risk is financial suicide and a guaranteed way to piss away a lot of money). With that in mind, I don’t think the few who can’t afford it should drag down those who can through having those people get taxed up the asshole so that the poor can have healthcare. The only real issue that I see with a privatized system is having a handful of companies with a monopoly on the system and scalping people for money across the board. On some things you are right but I mostly disagree with what you said. Actually, Denmark spends less on healthcare as a share of GDP (adjusted for purchasing power) than the US. And their healthcare system covers EVERYONE in their country, whereas the 27 million people in the US aren't covered and will probably have to go bankrupt if they get seriously ill or injured. Healthcare outcomes are also better which is a good measure of quality The US is the only industrialized economy without a universal system. No economy that switched from private to public healthcare has ever decided to go back because it's always in an improvement, so what do you think the probability is that it won't be an improvement for the US? In summary, I understand the arguments about not forcing people to buy things they don't want, and not forcing people to pay for other people's healthcare, but the most practical solution is to implement a universal healthcare system.
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647 posts
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Post by incompl on Jan 19, 2019 3:55:47 GMT -5
The US has over 50x the population of Denmark so it’s not a very good comparison to make. They have significantly less people to support than the US so obviously they’ll spend less in total. I also wouldn’t go comparing spending on privatized healthcare to government provided healthcare. One is paid for out of pocket like you would with other types of insurance and the other is paid for via the taxpayer. You can get a higher quality insurance by paying for it yourself rather than relying on government handouts, which are generally of lower quality since it has to be provided to millions upon millions of people equally and so higher quality care can’t be afforded. Is a privatized system perfect? Of course not. It screws the poor who can’t afford it and people with pre-existing conditions will either be scalped for money or turned down entirely (though in fairness insuring someone who is extremely high risk is financial suicide and a guaranteed way to piss away a lot of money). With that in mind, I don’t think the few who can’t afford it should drag down those who can through having those people get taxed up the asshole so that the poor can have healthcare. The only real issue that I see with a privatized system is having a handful of companies with a monopoly on the system and scalping people for money across the board. On some things you are right but I mostly disagree with what you said. Actually, Denmark spends less on healthcare as a share of GDP (adjusted for purchasing power) than the US. And their healthcare system covers EVERYONE in their country, whereas the 27 million people in the US aren't covered and will probably have to go bankrupt if they get seriously ill or injured. Healthcare outcomes are also better which is a good measure of quality The US is the only industrialized economy without a universal system. No economy that switched from private to public healthcare has ever decided to go back because it's always in an improvement, so what do you think the probability is that it won't be an improvement for the US? In summary, I understand the arguments about not forcing people to buy things they don't want, and not forcing people to pay for other people's healthcare, but the most practical solution is to implement a universal healthcare system. GDP=/=population so unless whatever study you’re referring to specifically lists GDP in relation to overall population then it’s a moot point. Even if the US took Denmark’s model exactly, they’d still have over 50x as many people to cover. Spending less on healthcare in relation to GDP. The US’ GDP is large enough compared to Denmark’s to handle this but the result would mean implementing a tax system like Denmark has in order to pay for it, unless of course you’re proposing slashing funding in other departments (like a lot of people on the political left aren’t a fan of military spending). People in Denmark are taxed up the asshole to pay for their services. The ridiculous 50% tax reserved for the wealthy 1% in North America is standard for them. That is an insane amount to lose in taxes and I’d be pretty pissed to lose that much of my paycheck so that poor people can have healthcare whereas I’d rather pay for my own healthcare (bear in mind that I’m not exactly well off myself, I’m fresh out of high school and only making a decent wage). I work a labour job in a production plant. A 50% tax rate on me would mean that I effectively work 4 hours a day for free because half of what I get is pissed away in taxes and I don’t even have a large enough income to where that 50% tax rate isn’t as bad as it is for the people in the 1%. They lose more money in total but they’re not pushed below the poverty line. I’m not entitled to any of their money and people worse off than I am who want free health care aren’t entitled to my money. Even beyond that, I live in Canada where we have free healthcare everywhere except where I live and the system is absolute garbage here. We’re hemorrhaging doctors, walk-in clinics close almost immediately, and ER wait times are atrocious as a result of people who would be at a walk-in flooding the ER instead because the walk-in is closed just so that they can get the prescription for the antibiotics they need. It’s a mess of a system and other countries would do well to avoid it.
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