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Post by Egida on Dec 7, 2018 15:33:18 GMT -5
This issue had already been brought up by Zhander a (long) while ago but not many people had given their opinion about it.
Anyway this thing exists, and I wonder if you guys believe it should be rated (i.e whether it deserves to be called "level" rather than "layout").
Personal opinion in this spoiler :
Personally, I believe that it is perfectly eligible to be rated, despite the deco being rather scarce. I think many people won't deem this rate-worthy due to the current standards for featured/epic levels which are all about glowy block-design or detailed artworks - don't get me wrong, those are really good too and they have their own merits, but I believe levels that focus more on atmosphere should be rewarded as well. In all honesty, I'd rather a new creator pull out this, even though it doesn't really look or play that good (it's only good when considered in its entirety), than a level that I feel like I've already played 10 times, which unforunately often is the case.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 17:23:59 GMT -5
Well, a layout to me is the result of only building the bare essential parts of the gameplay in a level with intention to decorate and populate the level more later.
Assuming that the level portrayed in the video was what the creator intended the final product to appear like, then it can and should be considered a fully fledged level.
HOWEVER, that does not mean that there aren't levels that are so under detailed that they could essentially be called layouts, but in technicalities it's a level. It's just a really bad level if you can't distinguish whether it's a finished level or a layout.
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Post by CreativeGuy on Dec 7, 2018 17:39:17 GMT -5
Well a level could be considered anything, as long as each aspect of it is complete to the point it's supposed to be.
While, yes, this level does have rather simple design, if that's what the level is supposed to be, it should be considered a level. Even a pure layout without a single piece of deco could be considered a level if the creator has no intention of decorating it.
Although I wouldn't say this could be considered a layout, since there is decoration and generally for a layout you wouldn't waste your time filling in all the structures, this looks to me like a normal WIP level.
Now, I believe this should absolutely not get rated, because no matter what the creator intended, if it's not good, it shouldn't get rated, and to me, the design looks like the creator just started working on the basic idea and nowhere near completing it. It just does not look good at all to me.
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Post by VegetarianBacon on Dec 7, 2018 17:43:53 GMT -5
Based on the video, I wouldn't dare rate that level. There are plenty of levels that have good gameplay and good deco, but it appears that this creator thinks he/she is too good to decorate the level. This honestly just shows laziness considering that so many people put hard work into gameplay AND decoration and the creator of this level spits out a level with sure, good gameplay, but besides that and music sync, there's no substance. It's boring to look at and really does not meet the standards of a good rated level with hard work and effort put into it. Even a generic, glowy level actually is decent to look at compared to that lazy level. The atmosphere says a lot about the level because it gives the level a vital feeling, like art. Imagine how boring the game would be if we saw these baseline effortless levels with zero pleasant things to look at start getting rated. This would almost be offensive to those who create good decoration (AND GAMEPLAY) because the decoration is basically the art of the level. You can't just walk into a museum and be pleased by just seeing the building itself if there were no art. The decoration really creates the vibe for the level and it would be a shame to see levels being rated (well sometimes this already happens lmao) that have little or no effort put into the decoration because the creator is too lazy to do so.
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Post by Egida on Dec 7, 2018 18:13:47 GMT -5
Just to clarify, the creator does consider this as a layout, but from what I can tell he probably doesn't plan on finishing the deco. This honestly just shows laziness considering that so many people put hard work into gameplay AND decoration Well it was not the case here but I believe going for a completely bland aesthetic is a perfectly justifiable choice. You can't really brush it off as laziness just because it doesn't use one of the main styles that are accepted in the current standards. Mind you most of the levels in the featured section have only deco and virtually no gameplay and no sync and they're just as substanceless. We have conflicting tastes and that's fine. But again, I don't think this is effortless, good layouts take a lot of time to build. This level only has an atmosphere so I guess it's the rawest possible artform If anything it would encourage creators to care more about creating good gameplay Again disagreed but we just have different tastes I guess. For me gameplay participates to making the level a piece of art just as much as deco. |
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Post by flash on Dec 7, 2018 19:06:52 GMT -5
its not even good gameplay, definitely not rateworthy
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Post by kiriE on Dec 7, 2018 20:20:51 GMT -5
Hmm, I'm very conflicted about this, because the music sync (not to mention the song choice) is amazing, and it's actually kinda original at times. However the design is obviously too minimalistic and the gameplay isn't even that good because of blind transitions and sudden jumps. I personally think this warrants a rate because of its weird originality and music sync, but if it's supposed to get featured it needs a lot more design in general and the gameplay needs to be made easier to read.
A level will always be a level, but I wouldn't view this as a complete and full level because of the layout-looking minimalistic design. Not only is the design very simple in the first place, but it immediately makes us think that it's supposed to be a layout and not a complete and finished level.
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Post by Swifter on Dec 7, 2018 21:51:37 GMT -5
A level can be anything, the difference, is if it’s a “good” level. A good level must have fun gameplay, good music sync, and at the least mediocre decoration. This is not the case with this, I would not deem this rate worthy, as if I was RobTop, I would unrate Conical Depression.
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Post by durianhead on Dec 7, 2018 23:19:24 GMT -5
people are confusing "layout" as being different from "level" in the first place. no shit it's a level, the guy clearly built it in geometry dash and it is in fact a custom stage that someone can open up and play. by all means it is a level.
however, just because it is a level doesn't mean it's a good level, or a functionally completed one. yes, it could be chalked up to "the creator's intent", but "creator's intent" doesn't make the level good either. i could make a shit level with the intent of the final product being a dumpster fire. is it a perfect level in that the intent is 100% fulfilled? yes. should it be rated? hell fucking no.
so in terms of where to draw the line between layout and level, i'd say that the relationship between layout and level is like a venn diagram, with "layout" inside "level". layouts are a specific subcategory of all the possible things someone can create in the editor, albeit a different subcategory from what we are used to. it doesn't mean we should treat them similarly as decorated levels, but they are levels too, and that's something to think about at least.
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Post by Gingie on Dec 8, 2018 0:25:39 GMT -5
All these complex arguments
For me it's actual decoration, anything without is just a glorified layout.
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Post by Slash57 on Dec 8, 2018 1:47:46 GMT -5
Self-explanatory. A layout is, simply put, just the layout of the level which creators sometimes like to make first to check whether the gameplay they can make fits the song. Many times, layouts are also created for fun. Although layouts are also levels, it’s implied by the OP that he is using the word ‘levels’ to refer to decorated levels.
The layout above, Annélhiesie, is definitely a layout. The creator used basic blocks and minimal decoration as he was just testing out his new idea for creating. Obviously effects are used in Annélhiesie, but as of now it is merely a layout. I consider a ‘level’ to be a decorated, completed exhibition of gameplay, effects and deco.
Also, I’m not sure whether Annélhiesie deserves to be rated. There are good arguments both ways, and I think either way would be fine. It might not be rated as it’s very basic, but then it uses many amazing and very unique effects, which would increase it’s chances of getting rated. If I had to go with one option, I think Annélhiesie should be rated.
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Post by CatkinsonGD on Dec 8, 2018 22:13:41 GMT -5
In my opinion (and these definitions are completely subjective), a layout is a level that completely lacks decoration, with the exception of maybe a couple of objects. A level is complete with gameplay, block design, air decoration, and a background. Everything in between is what I call "in development," meaning the gameplay is complete, but the decoration is bereft and the effects still need mastery and completion. It serves as a middle ground between a full level and a layout. So in the case of the video, the level is in development. I doubt Rob would rate something that's in development, let alone a layout, and neither would I.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 22:26:18 GMT -5
There are plenty of levels that have good gameplay and good deco, but it appears that this creator thinks he/she is too good to decorate the level. This honestly just shows laziness considering that so many people put hard work into gameplay AND decoration and the creator of this level spits out a level with sure, good gameplay, but besides that and music sync, there's no substance. Really?? "It appears that this creator thinks he/she is too good to decorate the level." Where on earth did that come from? That's a pretty insulting claim to the creator who apparently considers this a layout, not a complete level to be rated, as shown in this quote; Just to clarify, the creator does consider this as a layout, but from what I can tell he probably doesn't plan on finishing the deco. Seriously, that statement is really bad. EVEN IF the creator wanted it to be rated (Which they don't, I believe), how does that spell themselves thinking that they're too good to deco? That's like saying "People who make auto levels think they're too good to make gameplay." It's not a grounded claim in the slightest. |
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Post by DubstepJoltik on Dec 9, 2018 16:11:30 GMT -5
Honestly if Wire Frame can get featured then so can this I think if this level were to be rated, it would be Levelution 2 Electric Boogaloweffort (that is, if it were to become popular very quickly like Emit). Emphasis on the world level, because I think everything, even layouts, count as levels. Notwithstanding, I actually don't think I would call this level a layout because it's trying to portray art in the form of aesthetics and atmosphere, and layouts don't typically do that. Layouts always exist as bases for gameplay or to show off gameplay, and you don't normally add flair to them like this level does.
I don't want this level to be rated because to me, it's really just a very underdeveloped level, and it's not even really all that good by layout standards. However, it definitely wouldn't be as aggravating as Emit if it were to be rated or even featured (and considering how RobTop is, whether or not it'll happen is very debatable). |
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Post by KneeVan on Dec 9, 2018 19:15:55 GMT -5
Honestly this level being rated in its current form is so much missed potential. This looks like it could be a true masterpiece if actually decorated. This is a layout, and not a level. I do not want to see this level rated. Its sad because its so unique and has many cool aspects to it that I think deco could expand it but they choose to be lazy and leave it as a layout. Pretty annoying.
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