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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 13:37:14 GMT -5
gd players have always been able to beat new hardest levels, but eventually this will stop as we go into things that are either completely impossible, or so difficult that nobody has the skill, time, or patience to beat them. recently, ive been wondering when this will actually be.
we already seem to have hit a bit of a plateau, with orochi and innards being considered the roof of difficulty. however, there's no telling what the future holds, and i personally think that we may eventually see people beating former silent levels (assuming the game doesnt somehow die before then). people might even beat harder levels, though personally i think that once you get much harder than silent clubstep the gameplay just gets too frustratingly difficult to be worth trying
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Post by DubstepJoltik on Aug 22, 2018 14:14:22 GMT -5
I don't think people will ever beat the original Silent Circles or anything like that. Silent Clubstep? Actually, yeah, I think someone will try to beat it at one point, as one guy did it on Practice Mode, proving it's clearly at least humanly possible. Though it definitely won't be Knobbelboy or anything, he'll probably still be working on all of his projects when 2.3 comes around. As for Satanic Clubstep, I've never heard of it before, so I digress.
Although I don't really think anything will top Innards until 2.2, when things like camera controls and the shake trigger are added. And who knows, there might even be new gameplay mechanics we haven't heard of yet. Like, no one knew until the red orb or like half of the new triggers until 2.1 was out.
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647 posts
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Post by incompl on Aug 22, 2018 15:55:23 GMT -5
Looking back at how difficulty was made in 1.9/2.0 for the top tier extreme demons, levels were just lengthened to become more difficult (Yata and BB were significantly longer than the levels that came before). Once we get to a point where spaces can’t get any tighter because hitboxes won’t allow it and timings couldn’t be more inconsistent or awkward, then we’ll probably see levels getting longer and longer instead to reach the #1 status. Realistically, there are parts of levels like Innards that could be buffed (not saying it’s a good idea, just that it’s possible while still allowing for the level to be possible) so there is still evidently a little room for levels to be more inconsistent and tight than the likes of Innards. After that we’ll just see Innards difficulty levels that are several minutes long. The editor as is right now can make a level that’s nearly 20 minutes long. With the reverse thing coming out in 2.2, that timer could easily be extended to upwards of an hour. So long as there’s still fame on the line and an active player base, people will still be vying for the hardest demon slot so I don’t see things plateauing anytime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 15:55:40 GMT -5
Innards and Tartarus are pretty peak difficulty I think. In theory, the original Silent Clubstep could be beaten, however it’s so incredibly precise that I’m not entirely sure if people will get to the point of beating that. Just because it’s humanly possible doesn’t mean it can realistically be done.
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Post by thegrassguy on Aug 22, 2018 16:45:49 GMT -5
I don't think people will ever beat the original Silent Circles or anything like that. Silent Clubstep? Actually, yeah, I think someone will try to beat it at one point, as one guy did it on Practice Mode, proving it's clearly at least humanly possible. Though it definitely won't be Knobbelboy or anything, he'll probably still be working on all of his projects when 2.3 comes around. As for Satanic Clubstep, I've never heard of it before, so I digress. Although I don't really think anything will top Innards until 2.2, when things like camera controls and the shake trigger are added. And who knows, there might even be new gameplay mechanics we haven't heard of yet. Like, no one knew until the red orb or like half of the new triggers until 2.1 was out. Stormfly already beat a rebirthed version of SC called Silentium Gradas. By the way, beating and verifying old "impossible" levels (humanly possible ones, not Silent Circles, etc.) has been, and is definitely, a good idea. For example, Superex has verified a fixed version of Silent Club, TrusTa has verified Sakupen Hell, then there's Stormfly with the Sohn0924 Hell Series, Riot and ViPriN/Manix with Red World Rebirth and so on. About other such levels that haven't been beaten legitimately yet, there's Satanic Clubstep, The Chaotic World, Thinking Space, Unnerfed Stereo Demoness, and so on. There used to be two good YouTube channels dedicated to these types of levels called Cypher and Electro2001, displaying the levels using speedhacks, cuts, and noclip, however now both have privated these videos for unexplained reasons.Then there's also ToshDeluxe's impossible level series. Fortunately, I have been able to follow these channels for such a long time, and done plenty of independent research, that I have been able to compile a list of these types of "impossibles" that have a decent chance of being verified legitimately. The link can be found here: docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1secLfJ1pENd1bRbKbPIXwohc0Gwl-9NGSbeSRPpLLfYI have also posted a link to this list on a separate thread. I do hope that this list can help the GD community identify these unique types of levels and possibly even verify them. |
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652 posts
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Post by burrito1 on Aug 22, 2018 20:14:22 GMT -5
Looking back at how difficulty was made in 1.9/2.0 for the top tier extreme demons, levels were just lengthened to become more difficult (Yata and BB were significantly longer than the levels that came before). Once we get to a point where spaces can’t get any tighter because hitboxes won’t allow it and timings couldn’t be more inconsistent or awkward, then we’ll probably see levels getting longer and longer instead to reach the #1 status. Realistically, there are parts of levels like Innards that could be buffed (not saying it’s a good idea, just that it’s possible while still allowing for the level to be possible) so there is still evidently a little room for levels to be more inconsistent and tight than the likes of Innards. After that we’ll just see Innards difficulty levels that are several minutes long. The editor as is right now can make a level that’s nearly 20 minutes long. With the reverse thing coming out in 2.2, that timer could easily be extended to upwards of an hour. So long as there’s still fame on the line and an active player base, people will still be vying for the hardest demon slot so I don’t see things plateauing anytime soon. Just because people can make harder levels doesn't mean they can beat them. I can easily make a 2-hour-long, 3/4 block wide straight fly (with a glitch that allows you to extend levels), but does that mean anyone would or could beat it? Of course not. On topic, I think we're reaching the limit. The top 5 are incredibly close in difficulty, and the player base is less active than it used to be, so the difficulty of levels seems to be leveling off. I think the highest we can possibly reach is Innards difficulty, and even then I'm not sure we'll reach that. Players don't have infinite patience to practice. Unless we get a much bigger player base (which might happen from 2.2), I don't think we'll see anything too much harder than Bloodlust/Spacial Rend/Plasma Pulse Finale. |
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Post by RTef on Aug 22, 2018 20:21:03 GMT -5
Extreme Demons that are being created these days (e.g. Quicksand by Gyrotechnic and Idols by Zafikiel) are over 3 minutes, even 4 minutes long and thats where extreme demons are heading. Length is going to be the most important thing in the future for extreme demons and inconsistency, timings and all that other stuff are just gonna be additional features. I believe that at the end of GD, we will have 10+ minute long extreme demons with some areas being semi-easy and other areas being super inconsistent.
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Post by Subzero on Aug 22, 2018 21:47:31 GMT -5
I think human capabilities in this game cap out at around like a 10 minute long Innards difficulty level. I doubt anyone would beat that level but it is nonetheless what I feel is the limit. If we're talking difficulty that people would go for I think that Innards and Tartarus are that. I seriously doubt anyone would go for something harder.
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Post by KneeVan on Aug 22, 2018 23:08:59 GMT -5
I don't know how close we are to the skill ceiling but we certainly are insanely close. I can't imagine stuff being harder than innards but I guess only time will tell.
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Post by alterran on Aug 23, 2018 0:36:53 GMT -5
I honestly feel like there might not be a skill ceiling, or we’re quite far from one. Levels like Demon Park were considered insanely hard when they were first released; now they’re basically free. Even if some levels seem impossible to complete with current human reflex times, they might get easier after time passes and we hone our skills. Red World was a near-silent level when it came out, owing to the swingcopter gamemode which most people back then were not used to. However, Red World (Rebirth) is now considered an easy-end extreme. In the same way, even though some timings, spams, and mechanics may seem ridiculously hard today, we’ll get better at them and they won’t seem so hard anymore. Of course, levels like Silent Circles (which require like 100 clicks per second lmao) will probably never be beaten as they are humanely impossible, but we’ll get better at GD, and before you know it levels like Yatagarasu, Sonic Wave, etc. will be forgotten as old #1 demons that have long since fell off the top 25.
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Post by Spatdoepa on Aug 23, 2018 6:06:29 GMT -5
It think it is around innards/tartarus level, as those levels currently do have some progress but do still take insane amounts of attempts.
Also, im pretty sure satanic clubstep isn't as hard as silent clubstep, I think that with 240 hz and a good remake of the level it could get beaten in the near future.
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Post by stlaymore on Aug 23, 2018 18:37:58 GMT -5
the skill ceiling for this game also goes for a lot of other games: you could push it to the limits of a human being, but that's assuming the community would have enough time, dedication, and motivation to do so. i'm leaning towards near-silent levels because many old silent levels are just far too precise and rigorous for any one person to be able to beat without raging/giving up.
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343 posts
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Post by Vats on Nov 4, 2023 11:48:05 GMT -5
Its fun revisiting these after 5 years.
Considering the old sc was a bit harder than current sc, I assume its close to the current hardest levels viz Avernus or tidal wave. (Maybe wrong assumption)
So 4th option seems correct for 2.1 standards. Props to the 4 voters. (Unless a way harder pre 2.2 level gets verified in 2.2)
Surely skill ceiling will increase in 2.2 with the introduction of new mechanics
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