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Post by PikaBlu22 on Dec 21, 2017 21:50:57 GMT -5
So I re-watched Viprin’s video completing all three levels, in magnifying mode to make sure, and at every single point the player reversed, the % flipped. The one issue is Nock Em, when you beat it the level glitches and goes from around 80% complete to 98%. That to me shows that mabye RobTop knew about this and tried to fix it, but buggy or broken. The other major issue, syncing, is still a problem. If the % moving backwards thing is a bug then it’s likely it will be fixed before 2.2. If not then we really need to get ahold of RobTop and convince him to fix this. What, are you really sure? I took a look at Viprin's video and clearly, from 2:36 to 2:44 the player flips twice but the progress bar does not. It's even more obvious if you play it yourself with percentage on. :/ There's probably something behind this that RobTop is working on, we don't have the trigger so we can only guess at how it works. Well you are correct. It dose keep moving forward when it’s flipped. I missed that. That just proves even more that something really weird is going on. Tho it may just be Nock Em since all these parts are in that one level. Maybe that level is just really buggy or there really is something weird going on like there is two different type of flips or a portal trigger and line trigger. One that uses a tap and one that is a line like how I described above? Since how else do you flip without tapping. Clearly something is going on we don’t know. No matter what it is tho the player should never lose progress so maybe remove whatever feature is allowing that.
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Post by Retired moderator. on Dec 21, 2017 21:55:31 GMT -5
The new trigger that flips the player in 2.2/SubZero is totally broken and needs to be removed now! I get that this is hyperbole (or at least hope it is), but for anyone else, this is a ridiculous demand and something that simply will not happen. If you seriously think rob will take out an already previewed feature that was also available in a game that will reach and entice many new players, I hate to tell you this, but you're simply incorrect. With absolutely no knowledge of how this works in editor, you cannot make such a claim. who is to say that this isnt just a bug with the %meter, similar to how when going through mirror portals, the % sometimes momentarily goes backwards before correcting itself? Even then, there is no reason as to why rob couldnt fix this before the release of 2.2, which could take another year for all we know. As for sync in levels when it comes to touch activated triggers, there's usually a pretty small window in which you can tap an orb or button, so i dont think itll be too much of an issue, especially when most people will tap an orb via what im going to call buffering (holding mid air before touching the orb then letting go after, most people do this automatically. just look at literally any replay of levels involving non timing orbs) As i have said previously, your criticisms dont hold water because you do not know how this works in editor besides some issues when it comes to % calculations, can you give me a reason why this is so game breaking as to warrant a demand for the feature to be scrapped? It's also worth noting that % calculations are something that can be patched, and not affect gameplay No, it does not. I already stated earlier why this is a non issue. also, there are several times in which level already have inconsistencies with sync if you tap an orb late or early. Even then, wouldn't it be up to the creator to make it so that the time window for the tap is small enough to not cause sync issues? To almost demand for a feature to be scraped that you do not know how it works or is implemented be removed despite the fact that robtop probably worked on this feature for a long time is a bit disrespectful in my opinion.
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WillFlame
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An idea has taken root.
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Post by WillFlame on Dec 21, 2017 22:04:54 GMT -5
I noted this in the first post I made on this thread: "play Nock Em and the percentage does not reverse when going backwards until the final spider switch". :/ I have a suspicion that the two reverses are not caused by the same thing: the cube ones have the player go offscreen and then switch, similar to how the cube went offscreen several times earlier to teleport and change gravity, while the others switch direction instantaneously.
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Post by Subzero on Dec 21, 2017 22:14:18 GMT -5
Time for a bunch of "tiny" tower levels that are actually like 5 minutes long. This is actually a serious problem though and I hope Robtop can either fix it or postpone the feature. Am I the only one who'd actually like to see that? But yeah I'd like to see that if the level was long and not tiny.
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Post by CreativeGuy on Dec 21, 2017 22:21:31 GMT -5
God dammit I was going to create a tower level.
Anyways, level length is based on time, so as long as the editor calculates the correct time the level is, you won't have 6 minute tiny levels.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 22:30:09 GMT -5
uh this is the same reason why he didn't implement x axis teleportation back in 2.0
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Post by garlan on Dec 21, 2017 22:30:54 GMT -5
God dammit I was going to create a tower level. Anyways, level length is based on time, so as long as the editor calculates the correct time the level is, you won't have 6 minute tiny levels. we will get there eventually
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Post by Bagley on Dec 21, 2017 22:40:30 GMT -5
Everyone in this thread has made really good points. This bug shouldn't be an issue if creators realize how big a problem this feature is and exclude it from their levels. Still, it's disconcerting that RobTop pays such little attention to possible flaws in new updates. This idea does have potential, but it was implemented quite poorly. Methinks a compromise could be struck.
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Post by PikaBlu22 on Dec 21, 2017 22:45:02 GMT -5
Snipped since everything is answered and calm now. The new trigger that flips the player in 2.2/SubZero is totally broken and needs to be removed now! I get that this is hyperbole (or at least hope it is), but for anyone else, this is a ridiculous demand and something that simply will not happen. If you seriously think rob will take out an already previewed feature that was also available in a game that will reach and entice many new players, I hate to tell you this, but you're simply incorrect. With absolutely no knowledge of how this works in editor, you cannot make such a claim. who is to say that this isnt just a bug with the %meter, similar to how when going through mirror portals, the % sometimes momentarily goes backwards before correcting itself? Even then, there is no reason as to why rob couldnt fix this before the release of 2.2, which could take another year for all we know. As for sync in levels when it comes to touch activated triggers, there's usually a pretty small window in which you can tap an orb or button, so i dont think itll be too much of an issue, especially when most people will tap an orb via what im going to call buffering (holding mid air before touching the orb then letting go after, most people do this automatically. just look at literally any replay of levels involving non timing orbs) As i have said previously, your criticisms dont hold water because you do not know how this works in editor besides some issues when it comes to % calculations, can you give me a reason why this is so game breaking as to warrant a demand for the feature to be scrapped? No, it does not. I already stated earlier why this is a non issue. also, there are several times in which level already have inconsistencies with sync if you tap an orb late or early. Even then, wouldn't it be up to the creator to make it so that the time window for the tap is small enough to not cause sync issues? To almost demand for a feature to be scraped that you do not know how it works or is implemented be removed despite the fact that robtop probably worked on this feature for a long time is a bit disrespectful in my opinion. First off I wanna say please do read all other posts i've made in this thread that way you can get a full grasp at what i'm saying and my claims. Secondly the post I made was made very fast and I was very upset when I wrote it so yes it is very hyperbolized. Tho now I speak with a more reasonable mind and if you read my other posts I have admitted that it is more than likely this is some bug and that it will be fixed in 2.2. Now to address your claims and some things you may have misunderstood. I do not want RobTop to remove this feature at all. I think its an amazing feature with lots of potential to be a great addition. What I am trying to say is that this feature needs to be changed in some way before its added in 2.2. If it is changed and fixed i'm sure that it wouldn't take away from the experience at all like you make fixing this feature seem. As of yet you are correct, I along with nobody else knows how this works. It may be an option to have it reverse progress or not. As seen in my last response to WillFlame . or it may just be a bug that will get fixed. Shown in my first response to WillFlame. We dont know till someone hacks GD SubZero, 2.2 is released, or RobTop announces how it works. Now I wanna go really in depth about your claim that songs wont get out of sync from the orb activated switch. Your claim is totally untrue and unfounded, it will make a difference. Imagine a level that is all vertical with lots of these orbs, overtime the song may get severely off sync with the rest of the level. Also assuming that every player holds to activate orbs is really ignorant. I often dont because it most times kills me. You also said this, 'wouldn't it be up to the creator to make it so that the time window for the tap is small enough to not cause sync issues?'. That claim is bullshit straight up. Why should the level creator have to avoid problems RobTop has in his game? Also the size of the orbs hitbox is very large so if a creator wanted to make the player tap at a certain point to keep it in sync then they would need to have it kill you if you tap any second to late or too early. So basically every level that uses this orb needs to have Extreme Demon like tightness with every orb tap. Now that wouldn't make for fun gameplay at all! Now you claimed in your response to the 3rd quote that all my views dont hold water because I dont know every little detail on how it works. This is also a bullshit statement. You dont need to be a professional in a field to talk about something in that field, also making claims and having views on it. I know shit about how cloning works but dose that mean all my views about cloning are wrong and can be dismissed because I dont know every detail about what i'm talking about? No. Now in your response to the 4th quote. Yes I can provide a reason why this ideas should be 'removed'. Even though I dont want it to be removed, I want it to be fixed or postponed. My reasons are that you should never go be able to lose progress in GD other than by dying. You should always be heading toward the exit because you are always heading towards the exit. Even in a flip portal that we have right now you are still moving towards the exit, the screen is just reversed. The same should go if your moving backwards, unless there is a way to avoid being flipped you are always heading towards the exit in the same linear way. This is a 1 dimensional game, one line. Also you should never be able to avoid screen turn, thats why the way it should work is a line not a tap. That way you cant skip a part and break the game. In the 5th quote response you said that my idea of having the % be linear and always move forward and my idea that the trigger should be a line that way you cant avoid it dont correlate together. That is BS. They clearly do as explained in the last paragraph. To keep the game always linear and to get rid of the syncing bugs the trigger needs to be linear. That way you cant skip a part of the game. Its the same problem speed portals have had always. Thats why I also believe speed portals should always be a line so you cant skip them and off sync the game. Now the last quote response. I don't demand it be removed, I demand it be fixed. Otherwise it has some massive game breaking implications that should not happen ever. Also I don't have any respect for RobTop, he has been shown many times being rather uncaring towards the community in many aspects. That dosen't mean I dont want the game to improve or wanna better the game. What I hope to do is push RobTop to make these fixes to improve the game and repair his respect and trust with me and the community. Now I know that RobTop will never see this post but I still like to give my best effort in making the issue public. It is also useful to see how many people agree with me, or how many people that don't like yourself. Now thats fine you disagreeing with me, its just you got some things wrong and I had to respond to them. Hopefully you can respond to this response and possibly convince me that there is some benefit to these features. There has to be more reason to why you disagree with me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 22:45:41 GMT -5
honestly I don't get why everyone's saying that because of a flaw that could easily be fixed that the entire feature should be removed
Give him a chance to fix it, this isn't even that big of a problem as I see it :/
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Post by Bagley on Dec 21, 2017 22:54:54 GMT -5
honestly I don't get why everyone's saying that because of a flaw that could easily be fixed that the entire feature should be removed Give him a chance to fix it, this isn't even that big of a problem as I see it :/ Exactly. And let's not forget that some of the other features previewed in Subzero could actually be really cool if used in moderation (zoom trigger, free fly, stationary camera, etc). Although others are garbage, like the random trigger, but as I mentioned earlier, good creators will probably only use them for decoration, or it could even be used to detect cuts in gameplay footage. Now if only Rob would add a scale trigger ...
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Post by Mechanguis on Dec 21, 2017 22:55:30 GMT -5
This is a pretty glaring issue, but come on. We have no idea how the feature works in-editor yet, so for all we know it could just be a bug. The issue also seems to be purely visual as well, with no effect on the gameplay.
Also, I’m confused on how this is supposed to cause syncing issues.
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Post by DubstepJoltik on Dec 21, 2017 23:01:49 GMT -5
Not sure if someone else already said this but it also fucks with Practice Mode. It doesn't auto-place checkpoints anymore until the next screen.
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Post by ChilliusVGM on Dec 21, 2017 23:05:19 GMT -5
At my stream, RobTop said that when you verify the level, it will record your movements and sync your percentage to the verifier's percentage.
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Post by RobTopGames on Dec 21, 2017 23:19:43 GMT -5
Dont worry guys it will work as intended in 2.2 The percentage thing already works, I just forgot to add it to the levels. Havent slept much the last few days. Basically it records your movement when verifying a level and uses that if needed. So it wont go backwards in 2.2. There is a "flip" trigger that you can use instead of orbs/bounce pads. The issue with song sync depending on if you touch an orb early or late was a problem, but its not anymore. When you touch an orb it will register your distance to its center, and slow down or speed up the player a very small amount to compensate. (You either go 99% speed or 101% speed until the offset is removed). That way songs will always stay in sync. Other than that these levels were used a lot as tests to develop the tools everyone will need when building with the reverse feature. Music syncing levels that go back and forth like Power Trip is a bit of a hassle right now, but I am improving the editor to make it as simple as possible for those who want to build levels using the feature. TLDR: Feature safe. Not worry. RubRub
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