|
Post by Bagley on Dec 22, 2020 1:14:56 GMT -5
should be two different categories, just like best streamer/youtuber There is an objective answer to "Best stargrinder" though? Like if the point of grinding is to get a number as high as physically possible I feel like it can kind of be determined based on whoever is currently #1. Of course, people would vote Cool over Superchat because he's more well known (and he's spent more time in the #1 spot), but since Superchat is currently #1 I don't think it's much of a stretch to say he would deserve it over anyone else atm. "Best player" is more of an enigmatic category since the people with the most hard completions aren't necessarily the most efficient/most consistent/etc. I do wish there was stargrinder representation in the nominees though bc the skill required to be top 10 (hell, even top 100) at this point is really under-appreciated by the community at large. But there's an objective answer to "Best anything" if you have strict parameters for what exactly "Best" means, depending on the category you're considering. For stargrinders it might be whoever has the most stars (duh), for best player you could define it in a number of ways: hardest demon (ties broken by 2nd hardest, then 3rd hardest, etc, which nSwish would win), fastest at beating demons (and you could define what exactly that means, maybe someone like Luqualizer would win this), and so on. So the "Best player" debate doesn't really debate anything concerning each player's rank in these respective skill categories, the debate just becomes, which of these categories is most important, and you could thereby determine the "best" player by default. So it's really a pointless exercise if you ask me. It's like an MVP (most valuable player) award for a sports league. You're not really debating between players, you're debating between which criteria (like which stat category, or a combination thereof) are the most important (which is SUBJECTIVE), and once you determine that, there is an OBJECTIVE answer to which player is the best under those parameters.
|
|
|
Post by Dragon on Dec 22, 2020 1:55:56 GMT -5
There is an objective answer to "Best stargrinder" though? Like if the point of grinding is to get a number as high as physically possible I feel like it can kind of be determined based on whoever is currently #1. Of course, people would vote Cool over Superchat because he's more well known (and he's spent more time in the #1 spot), but since Superchat is currently #1 I don't think it's much of a stretch to say he would deserve it over anyone else atm. "Best player" is more of an enigmatic category since the people with the most hard completions aren't necessarily the most efficient/most consistent/etc. I do wish there was stargrinder representation in the nominees though bc the skill required to be top 10 (hell, even top 100) at this point is really under-appreciated by the community at large. But there's an objective answer to "Best anything" if you have strict parameters for what exactly "Best" means, depending on the category you're considering. For stargrinders it might be whoever has the most stars (duh), for best player you could define it in a number of ways: hardest demon (ties broken by 2nd hardest, then 3rd hardest, etc, which nSwish would win), fastest at beating demons (and you could define what exactly that means, maybe someone like Luqualizer would win this), and so on. So the "Best player" debate doesn't really debate anything concerning each player's rank in these respective skill categories, the debate just becomes, which of these categories is most important, and you could thereby determine the "best" player by default. So it's really a pointless exercise if you ask me. It's like an MVP (most valuable player) award for a sports league. You're not really debating between players, you're debating between which criteria (like which stat category, or a combination thereof) are the most important (which is SUBJECTIVE), and once you determine that, there is an OBJECTIVE answer to which player is the best under those parameters. Under Luxi's argument, it sets forth the notion that the ability to be the "Best player" isn't exclusively "who's beaten the harder demon." This is correct, because skill in GD isn't only determined by one thing. While the player's hardest demon is a factor, it shouldn't be the only factor. While nSwish is the go-to for a lot of people because of the difficulty of the levels he beats, there are certain things that other players can do better than him. People can grind stars much faster than he has, and MrSpaghetti has claimed that grinding stars is more difficult than beating extremes, as someone who's done both. nSwish also has a hard time with some learning and memory based levels, while they're the specialty for people like Luqualizer who is able to learn and complete very hard memory levels very fast. nSwish has also pretty much never done a 2 player demon solo (or at least not one of significant difficulty), while players like Plusxenon have been able to do Multition solo. The things I've listed are all different skills that could all be applied as to who's the "Best Player." Splitting that up into multiple categories is really only a method to imply that there's only one determinant as to who's the best player, which is untrue and narrow-minded.
|
|
|
Post by Luxi on Dec 22, 2020 2:56:06 GMT -5
There is an objective answer to "Best stargrinder" though? Like if the point of grinding is to get a number as high as physically possible I feel like it can kind of be determined based on whoever is currently #1. Of course, people would vote Cool over Superchat because he's more well known (and he's spent more time in the #1 spot), but since Superchat is currently #1 I don't think it's much of a stretch to say he would deserve it over anyone else atm. "Best player" is more of an enigmatic category since the people with the most hard completions aren't necessarily the most efficient/most consistent/etc. I do wish there was stargrinder representation in the nominees though bc the skill required to be top 10 (hell, even top 100) at this point is really under-appreciated by the community at large. But there's an objective answer to "Best anything" if you have strict parameters for what exactly "Best" means, depending on the category you're considering. The point of my OP is that there is no rigorously defined method to determine who is "objectively" the best player, which is why opening it to a community vote for the GD Awards makes logical sense. It lets players determine on their own what should be most important aspects of playing to truly be the best (Not that I actually trust the community to come to a sensible conclusion 100% of the time). Stargrinding has a much more linear progression and there are fewer aspects to consider than there are when you're looking at pro players in general. Like dragon said in the post above me, there are far more aspects of someone's playstyle when you have a category as ubiquitous and universal as "Best Player". When you narrow down such a category to only one of those aspects (stargrinding), you are effectively removing the aspect of having to weigh out what is important in a good player and replacing it with a stat that the game keeps track of for you. And that is, well, objective.
|
|
|
Post by Bagley on Dec 22, 2020 3:00:27 GMT -5
But there's an objective answer to "Best anything" if you have strict parameters for what exactly "Best" means, depending on the category you're considering. For stargrinders it might be whoever has the most stars (duh), for best player you could define it in a number of ways: hardest demon (ties broken by 2nd hardest, then 3rd hardest, etc, which nSwish would win), fastest at beating demons (and you could define what exactly that means, maybe someone like Luqualizer would win this), and so on. So the "Best player" debate doesn't really debate anything concerning each player's rank in these respective skill categories, the debate just becomes, which of these categories is most important, and you could thereby determine the "best" player by default. So it's really a pointless exercise if you ask me. It's like an MVP (most valuable player) award for a sports league. You're not really debating between players, you're debating between which criteria (like which stat category, or a combination thereof) are the most important (which is SUBJECTIVE), and once you determine that, there is an OBJECTIVE answer to which player is the best under those parameters. Under Luxi's argument, it sets forth the notion that the ability to be the "Best player" isn't exclusively "who's beaten the harder demon." This is correct, because skill in GD isn't only determined by one thing. While the player's hardest demon is a factor, it shouldn't be the only factor. While nSwish is the go-to for a lot of people because of the difficulty of the levels he beats, there are certain things that other players can do better than him. People can grind stars much faster than he has, and MrSpaghetti has claimed that grinding stars is more difficult than beating extremes, as someone who's done both. nSwish also has a hard time with some learning and memory based levels, while they're the specialty for people like Luqualizer who is able to learn and complete very hard memory levels very fast. nSwish has also pretty much never done a 2 player demon solo (or at least not one of significant difficulty), while players like Plusxenon have been able to do Multition solo. The things I've listed are all different skills that could all be applied as to who's the "Best Player." Splitting that up into multiple categories is really only a method to imply that there's only one determinant as to who's the best player, which is untrue and narrow-minded. I'm not here to debate whether grinding stars is harder or easier than beating extremes. My point is that if there are several skills (each with a person who is OBJECTIVELY the best at them) to be considered, then the "Best Player" debate boils down to determining which skill is the most important, or an aggregation of skills (for example, the NFL's quarterback rating, which combines completion percentage, yards, touchdowns, and interceptions), because once you've done that, you can instantly calculate who the "winner" should be. It would be silly to argue who the "best" GD player is when the concept of "best" has yet to be rigorously defined without any ambiguity. Now, how exactly that should be determined is probably better left to people like MrSpaghetti than to people like me, but my point is that a debate between, say, Cool Dash vs nSwish, is really a debate between stargrinding vs hardest demon (which is SUBJECTIVE), because those players are already OBJECTIVELY the best in those respective categories. EDIT: Oops, ninja'd by Luxi. I'll edit this in with my thoughts on his post. EDIT 2: "The point of my OP is that there is no rigorously defined method to determine who is "objectively" the best player." Well, you're half right. There is no rigorously defined method to determine which skill is the most important in determining the best player. But if there were, and you did have a "secret formula" to determining a player's overall strength, then it would be entirely objective. And even if you did trust the community to give an accurate formula of how each player's skills should be evaluated (and not do something stupid like voting npesta for best player ... that's why there's a committee), it would be an even better idea to have an open discussion about it rather than making a closed form poll. Because as it stands right now, the poll doesn't ask whether Cool Dash is a better player than nSwish. It asks whether stargrinding is a more "valuable" skill than beating the top demons.
|
|
|
Post by Despey on Dec 22, 2020 9:19:34 GMT -5
if i won that would be pretty cool i think Flash for best design creator
|
|
|
Post by dtc on Jan 2, 2021 16:35:21 GMT -5
The results are out! What do you think? Personally most results were expected and what i voted for, even though i wish guitar had not won, as either doggie or evw deserved it more (guitar himself even told his fans not to vote for him)
|
|
599 posts
Discord: somethingishere1o1#0225
Favorite Level: Tenth Circle by DeniPol
Hardest Demon: Escape The Core by Pennutoh (60hz mobile)
|
Post by somethingishere1o1 on Jan 2, 2021 17:29:49 GMT -5
flash got robbed it's not even a joke
#flash2021
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 17:58:16 GMT -5
My Thoughts on BEST AUTO LEVEL Alas definitely deserved it. GD legends finally was nice pick too but dafuq is the toilet level doing so high BEST XL DEMON I would have preferred STARPUNK or even Sky tower over Future Funk II BEST DEMON MEGACOLLAB Castlemania 100% deserved it. The other 5 were really nice though BEST EXTREME DEMON Cold Sweat is probably the best but how did xo get seconds. N0 should have gotten much more votes but it is unknown BEST MODERN LEVEL Dream Flower by far. It wasnt even a competition BEST EFFECT LEVEL HOW deserved it 100% but its imo the 2nd best effect level behind Quantum Variations BEST ART LEVEL I didnt care for this category but eden Blessing is my fave BEST DESIGN LEVEL Sedulous is overrated af. Leyak is better BEST MINIGAME I didnt care for this category but I chose Chess BEST BOSSFIGHT Ultra Violence is the best but Experiment 204 should have gotten 2nd BEST SONG I didnt really love any of the song in this category but Exit the Earths Atmosphere was my favorite of them but I hate Epilogue BEST ARTIST who? BEST STREAMER Npesta by far. Aeon is ok. Juniper is painfully unfunny. And I never really watched Samifying BEST YOUTUBER Not fair that GHS was nominated again after winning. I would be fine with any of the other 3 to win but even with GHS on Doggies side he couldnt win BEST MODERN CREATOR I thought knots was going to win but idk if Xender really counts as modern or not BEST EFFECT CREATOR I would have preferred Sminx over Para but he was my 2nd choice BEST DESIGN CREATOR idk why but I really like Flash's work and his part in LIMBO but EnZore is also really good BEST ART CREATOR AmorAtra because of PP BEST PLAYER nSwish should have won but not by that big of a margin. And RG, Rori, and Swiborg deserved more nSwish=Rori>Swiborg>Sid=Luqualizer>RG
|
|
1,187 posts
Discord: gamecubeguy214#4615
Favorite Level: Ocular Miracle
Hardest Demon: Prismatic Haze by Cirtrax and Gizbro
|
Post by gamecubeguy214 on Jan 2, 2021 20:07:49 GMT -5
To get my least favorite thing out of the way, I really don't think XO should have been nominated. These awards are not a joke, and I'm really surprised how many people voted for it. I would replace it with Prismatic Haze instead. I also was surprised Epilogue and Exit This Earth's Atomosphere were that close for best song, and I prefer EVW over Guitar personally.
However, I didn't strongly disagree with anything else. The best auto level which I forgot the name of is super impressive, and otherwise it was nice to just watch the results.
|
|
|
Post by Bagley on Jan 2, 2021 20:28:16 GMT -5
in fairness to guitar, he was a clickbait king for most of 2019 and probably didn't deserve to win it that year, but he really did clean up his act in 2020
|
|
|
Post by Despey on Jan 4, 2021 8:44:53 GMT -5
Tualet na kashady den should have won ngl
|
|
23 posts
Discord: No discord. :(
Clans: Any clan that I am in.
Creator Points: 0
Favorite Level: My Ones
Hardest Demon: Back on Track
|
Post by justauser123 on Jan 31, 2021 22:07:22 GMT -5
Tualet na kashady den should have won ngl Who?
|
|