[OFFICIAL] The 4th Forum Megacollab!

The level won't fail to stand out purely on the song alone. If the creators are good enough then the level will stand out based on appearance. Who's saying it won't stand out? It has much less of a chance of standing out. When you have the same song as other levels, you're competing with those other levels for that song, in a way. Oftentimes, songs will remind people of levels that use them. Example: you hear "Death Moon." The first level you think of? Death Moon. You here {Midnight}. The first level you think of is Dreamer by Funnygame. You hear Dimension by Creo and you think of Black Blizzard, you hear the first part of ATSOL and you think of Cataclysm, etc. But when a lot of levels use the same song, you're competing for that spot of the first level people think of. For example, when I hear Time Leaper, the first level I think of is Falling Up. But there are a ton of other levels that use Time Leaper as well, so when I play THOSE levels, all I can think is "Oh well this is the song from Falling Up."

And besides, your definition of "good" unknown songs is purely subjective to you, just like it is to everyone. The usage of popular songs here proves that more people enjoy these songs in general rather than a select few, so that we can appeal to as many people as possible by using these songs, despite their preferences. So, you're telling me that in the over 7 hundred thousand songs on New Grounds, they couldn't find ONE that was good enough? Excuse me, but I think that's bullshit. It comes from the fact they're either not really trying or don't really care.

Find me 5 levels that use summit by creo. That one is winning in the poll. The only times I've seen it used are a layout that I made and Panman's holiday collab. There are actually 3 featured levels that use the song. Is that less than 5? Sure, but it's also way more than 0. Mescalink is known but only has 1 rated level which is by Schady iirc Once again, 3 featured levels. Exploring Space has been used in 2 levels I recall, cosmocat and exploring space Nope. There are 5. Popcorn is only known for popcorn. As well as The 12th Dimension, with a total of 9 featured levels that use it.

If you would have done a little research you would find how poor this argument is. Actually, if YOU had just opened the game and searched up the songs, you'd have realized how poor your own arguments are.

Btw the other collabs were no better, The Cosmos, Mantis Shrimp Showdown and Nirmiti are all "overused" by your standards too. When did I ever say the other ones were better? Hell, when did I even MENTION them?

Your complaining isn't gonna fix anything anyways. So, I suppose criticism in general is useless right? If you think complaining doesn't fix anything, then why are you here complaining about what I posted? If someone was complaining about an unavoidable truth of the universe/society, I'd totally get your argument. But by criticizing the hosts for their decision to not pick any unknown songs/artists, it might lead to change in the future.

I'm not trying to claim that these are in any way equivalent to something like Time Leaper. But it's unacceptable to me that they couldn't find a SINGLE song that they liked that was more unknown or obscure. There are over 7 hundred thousand songs we can use, yet we keep coming back to the same songs by the same artist. I just wish people would actually make an effort to branch out and pick something that's unique and will stand out, especially because they're asking us to contribute to it. I want to work with the forum members, but what happens when the collab is completely forgotten because we didn't use a more unique song? I'm not saying that it WILL happen, but the more mainstream your song is the more likely the level is to be forgotten.

You're literally using the "this song is good" argument again, even after being explicitly told that your opinion is subjective. What makes a song good or bad is up to you. It's NOT set in stone. Since everyone has different tastes in music, the best way to appease everyone is by using popular songs that would get the most amount of people that like said song. I don't know how to make this any clearer. Usually you actually bring up quite valid points but you're actually talking garbage now. No, I don't think YOU understand. I'm not telling them to use a particular song. I'm telling them that they should pick a good song that is more obscure. Yes, I understand that what's good and bad is subjective. But I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't be able to find a song that they considered good within the 700k songs available for use by them.

Also, responding to your response to Evan's post, you say that complaining is good. Why not actually suggest a way to fix the issues you have, instead of just laying down everything you resent about the collab? Criticism involves helping people improve, not just pointing out mistakes. Well, in this case it's a binary condition. Either they do or do not use an unknown song. So, by criticizing their lack of unknown songs, the implication is that they should use a more unknown song. So, if you really need me to spell it out, the thing that would improve this for me is if they included some more unknown songs in the poll. My point was so obvious that I didn't think I'd need to actually say it like that because, again, it's a binary condition.

Replies in bold. You clearly don't know what I'm getting at.

And once again, you're telling them to use a "good" song that is more obscure. How do they know if a song is "good" or not? There's no way to tell because it's subjective. Please, stop telling them to find a "good" song. You even literally said yourself you understand it's subjective, yet you continue to label them as definitively good or bad. I can understand that if you think obscure songs are good, and I also agree that using obscure songs is sometimes good, but in this context, using an obscure song wouldn't be any better than using a popular song. Should I spell it out? Alright, so for one, I said that they should find a song that THEY CONSIDER good. The key word being "consider." I'm not trying to say that there are songs out there that will be objectively better as far as musical composition is concerned. However, I believe that in general, using an unknown song makes the level stand out more, because then they aren't just automatically making comparisons to other levels which use the same song. I also find it very unlikely that of the 700k songs available, that they wouldn't be able to find a more unknown song that they would think is just as good as the ones they picked (again, a song THEY think is just as good). You act as if I'm trying to say that they shouldn't use the songs in the poll because the songs are inherently worse than other unknown songs, but it's not. What I'm saying is that I dislike the fact that they didn't try to use more obscure songs because, again, the level is more memorable that way.

- Using a popular song means that more people have heard the song. Subsequently, due to proportion, this should generally mean that there exist more people in the world who would like said song. This makes it easier to gauge if it should or shouldn't be used. Ya but then it also means that those people will inherently compare the level we made to other levels with the same song. The last thing you want is for people to just be thinking of better levels the entire time they play your level. Yes, this can be offset by being the best level that uses said song, but as you've said, what's good and not good is subjective. So by using an unknown song, and thus not giving the players anything to compare it to, the level is more memorable.

- Using an obscure song means that less people have heard the song. Due to proportion, this should mean that there exist less people in the world who currently like the song. This makes it near impossible for us to gauge whether or not the song will be well received. This is important if we believe what you say when you think that a song is everything when it comes to first impressions. Ya but again, you have a poll. You wouldn't just be taking a shot in the dark. All the people who want to participate/see the thread get to vote, which makes it more likely that a "better" song is picked (or, at least, a song that more people like). Not only that, but using more obscure songs forces people to actually listen to the songs instead of just voting based off of "Oh hey I like that artist so I'll vote for this song).

And did they ever say that they believe they picked what they thought were good/bad songs? Like, genuine question.
Why the fuck would they pick songs for the poll that they didn't like? That doesn't really make much sense does it.

Also, I highly disagree it's a binary condition for choosing a song. When I say suggest, I don't literally mean "tell them to use a popular song" or something. You do realise songs have names? If you have a resentment for popular songs, while it's all good pointing that out, why not give actual names for songs you'd like to see? You're really passionate about this debate for some reason, so you must have something in mind. That's what I'm trying to say when I say suggest. I don't know why you just assume it to be a binary condition to fit your own argument. But I don't want to tell them to use specific songs, because then you run into the problem of songs I like being songs they don't like. As you said yourself, it's all subjective. It's hypocritical for you to ask me to do this, because you just made a huge deal about how subjective songs are. Don't tell me not to criticize their song choices because it's all subjective, but then demand I offer up songs that are better than the ones they have.