What you need to know about Hz
Jul 26, 2016 14:31:15 GMT -5
carbonara <3, Bionix, and 25 more like this
Post by Lunar TR on Jul 26, 2016 14:31:15 GMT -5
I don't want to start a war or anything, I just want to clear up some differences and hopefully help people actually understand what they're arguing about. Probably some posts in the past like this but I didn't look hard enough.
First thing first: Hz definition.
Computer monitor Hz is how many times the screen updates per second. So Hz = updates per sec. That means 60hz = 60 updates per second and 144hz = 144 updates per second. This may seem like a big difference, and maybe it might be an advantage, but it's the smallest advantage at most.
Second thing, the bigger thing: Response time.
Response time is the amount of time a pixel in a display takes to change. It is measured in milliseconds (ms). Lower numbers mean faster transitions and therefore fewer visible image artifacts. (Definition from wikipedia)
So from this, we take that this is bigger than Hz, because this is how long it takes for pixels to transition. It's not such big numbers, and it is rather fast, but it has a bigger impact. Now the main reason people are arguing over Hz is because 144hz and 120hz are mainly 3/2/1 ms response times while 60hz is usually 5 or greater ms. You might think from reading this that all 144hz monitors are 1ms response, and all 60hz are 5 or greater ms. That's not true. If you look hard enough, you can find a relatively cheap 1 or 2 or 3 ms response time monitor with 60hz. This can cause a slightly larger advantage than the number of hz.
Final thing: Phones
If you were to do a hz test on mobile, you would find that phones are 30hz! (Atleast mine is anyways) and most phones response time is 45ms and higher! This is much bigger than a 60hz monitors response time. But take a look at the #1 spot on the leaderboard. Who is it? Same as always, Michigun. He plays on phone, he may not be the greatest player in the world, but look at his demons. Over 800! And on phone! Phones are worse hz and response time than computers, but look at what you can do on them!
So what can we take from this? Complaining won't solve anything, and if you learn the facts, you could add reason to your argument.
But, if michigun doesn't complain, and he's on phone and in the number 1 spot, what reason do you have to complain? Because someone's response time is lower than yours? That's not a good reason. I can say that maybe on the higher levels 144hz will matter, but I've played on mobile, 60hz, and 144hz, and I can say the only time something was easier was going from mobile to PC.
If michigun can get #1 on phone, then you have no reason to complain.
No tl;dr because if you are going to argue, then might as well learn the facts. (Looking at you AncientAnubis)
Y3TI quote
You sir, are one of the very few people who know way more than just a definition. We need more people like you here... But you forgot one crucial thing. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Y3ti Tech Tips.
Something else you need to know when picking your monitor that might not effect reflexes and timings, but will definitely effect you being able to pull something off. I'm talking a magical specification called... Input Delay!
So we learnt that Refresh Rate, measured in hertz or Hz (which is actually a measurement unit for electrical frequency, by the way) determines the amount of times a monitor refreshes to display a new frame from your graphics card if available (Ex: 60 Hz = Up to visually seeing 60 FPS, no matter how many FPS you get over 60)...
...and Response Time, measured in milliseconds, or ms (a time measurement unit, also known as 1/1000 of a second), determines how quickly each single pixel on the monitor (amount of pixels determined by resolution) can react to having to display a new colour, and how quickly it can show those changes in colour and shading. What about Input Delay, Y3ti? I didn't come here to TL;DR 2 huge paragraphs of you recapping what the OP said. Get on with it! Ok fine.
Input Delay, also measured in milliseconds/ms, determines how long it takes for a monitor to display a change manipulated by the signal of a peripheral, such as a mouse or keyboard. In easier terms, if your monitor has an input delay of 3ms, whenever you click, it will take 3ms for that click to show on the monitor.
You also wanna avoid screen tearing, in which 2 things help: higher refresh rates, or an adaptive sync, if any. My advice is that if you have an AMD GPU that supports FreeSync, get a monitor that supports it too, whereas if you have an NVIDIA GPU that supports G-Sync, you need a G-Sync monitor. Otherwise, V-Sync will do well enough.
FreeSync and G-Sync do the same thing. They don't take away FPS. They just show specific frames from all those FPS to sync with response time, input delay, and simply predictions and/or polling rates (Where peripherals, specifically mice rather than keyboards, refresh and inform the monitor and PC about its position, for more precision, measured in hertz/Hz).
V-Sync removes all FPS above the refresh rate, so if you have a 60 Hz monitor and 200 FPS, V-Sync completely wipes out the extra 140 FPS completely, so there's only 60 FPS. This is where it wouldn't be worth getting an expensive graphics card that will help you get 200 FPS, because anything above 60 won't exist with V-Sync.
Of course, screen size, and even bezel can affect how you yourself play. If you were playing on a 3" inch screen with a 5" bezel, it would be really hard to focus due to the tiny display, and those useless black bars caused by unidentical aspect ratios, or simply edges. But that's not what I'm talking about today.
Also, there is merely no difference in using a refresh rate higher than 60Hz on Geometry Dash, except for getting unnecessarily more FPS on a 2D game based on jumping and stuff, and a rather wrecked trail above 60 Hz. If you plan to get a monitor with a higher refresh rate than 60 solely for Geometry Dash, you're doing a huge mistake. If you plan to play games like COD, CSGO, LOL, or DOTA 2, and happen to play Geometry Dash, go ahead, as long as GD doesn't influence your decision.
Well that's all for today, folks! I hope you guys learnt something new, and this was helpful for you. If it was, leave a like on this post so I know this made you understand a thing or two. Other than that, hope you guys have a wonderful day!
Y3ti, out!
AlFas quote (quoting Y3TI)
I just love this guy...
Seriously now, I don't think anyone with that much experience on computer technology and stuff will manage to understand that. You also forgot to mention another point, it being the human eye and the brain. Which I am going to talk about.
Anyone subscribed to VSauce should know that the human eye catches very high FPS, it being up to 240FPS at some rare circumstances, though the brain is the translator to give the image FAILING on translating the signal into light and sight. 240FPS is WAY TOO MUCH for the brain to process causing heavy brain ache when watching anything at 240FPS and that is because there is TOO MUCH information to process especially when very rapid motions occur.
Now of course I don't say that the brain is incapable of high frame rates. In fact there are some tests that have been done in pilots to test their ability on spotting a dot in 1/144th of a second. That's what we call 144Hz for monitor refresh rate or 144FPS video frame rate. Now, sure they do spot it, but when there are 2 continuous frames in the 144FPS rate with different colors each time, the brain combines the colors. For example, if you are watching a 144FPS video with just a black screen and it turns into magenta and green within just 2 frames, your brain will understand that this is white. Yeah, that means not that big of a difference.
In 60FPS, perhaps the brain won't translate the example above as white because the amount of time between the two frames is enough for the brain to process the image. It works like V-sync that Y3ti said before.
So what does this have to do with GD? Well that is an example of the distinguishing between colors in high frame rate. As for motion, the brain does not catch it that much easily. You see, the brain may not understand the tiny motion in such a high frame rate because of the smoothness and it is easily blurred out if it is seen as a simple image. That means if you were to take a picture with your brain of a 144Hz monitor while playing GD, you would see some blur in the picture. A good example is to shake your hand in front of you very quickly and to understand the difference try capturing that with a slow-mo camera at 120FPS or even 240FPS!
Surv and whoever wants may have 144Hz monitors, but how many FPS do their brains get? And how many are analyzed completely? No one else knows except for themselves. And how much does it take them to react to the events and signals?
This is another factor that plays a cardinal role in these games. The reaction time. Mine is 16-17ms I hope (I HAVE TESTED IT OUT) when playing levels that I know by heard. This is what we are talking about here because I don't think anyone has beaten any 2.0 Demon first try (prima vista - first sight).
Surv and all those infamous 144Hz monitor players don't do any better than us 60Hz monitor players unless they are more skilled. 144Hz does NOT offer that much a difference. At 75Hz is what it is the ideal monitor for a Skill Demon, anything bigger than that refresh rate is USELESS to us humans, unless we are bionic.
So, I don't wanna see stupid people posting stuff about this without being aware of any kind of real-world physics, science and computer technology. They are just some goats as we say here in Greece, meaning that they just follow what ONE says and they are influenced TOO MUCH so that they become the same the person that influences them, or maybe even worse.
That's all I had to say, I'm NOT going to post ANYTHING else about this STUPID controversy that occurred because of an IMMATURE player with TOO MANY followers. ENOUGH with those BIG letters that EMPHASIZE on the BIG words, I'm just done.
Hope you really become smarter now, not because of me, but because of some knowledge and some maturity. I'm bored of seeing retards all over the place causing cancer, chaos and controversies, the 3 Cs that are not good on any game. Remember that
AlFas out.
First thing first: Hz definition.
Computer monitor Hz is how many times the screen updates per second. So Hz = updates per sec. That means 60hz = 60 updates per second and 144hz = 144 updates per second. This may seem like a big difference, and maybe it might be an advantage, but it's the smallest advantage at most.
Second thing, the bigger thing: Response time.
Response time is the amount of time a pixel in a display takes to change. It is measured in milliseconds (ms). Lower numbers mean faster transitions and therefore fewer visible image artifacts. (Definition from wikipedia)
So from this, we take that this is bigger than Hz, because this is how long it takes for pixels to transition. It's not such big numbers, and it is rather fast, but it has a bigger impact. Now the main reason people are arguing over Hz is because 144hz and 120hz are mainly 3/2/1 ms response times while 60hz is usually 5 or greater ms. You might think from reading this that all 144hz monitors are 1ms response, and all 60hz are 5 or greater ms. That's not true. If you look hard enough, you can find a relatively cheap 1 or 2 or 3 ms response time monitor with 60hz. This can cause a slightly larger advantage than the number of hz.
Final thing: Phones
If you were to do a hz test on mobile, you would find that phones are 30hz! (Atleast mine is anyways) and most phones response time is 45ms and higher! This is much bigger than a 60hz monitors response time. But take a look at the #1 spot on the leaderboard. Who is it? Same as always, Michigun. He plays on phone, he may not be the greatest player in the world, but look at his demons. Over 800! And on phone! Phones are worse hz and response time than computers, but look at what you can do on them!
So what can we take from this? Complaining won't solve anything, and if you learn the facts, you could add reason to your argument.
But, if michigun doesn't complain, and he's on phone and in the number 1 spot, what reason do you have to complain? Because someone's response time is lower than yours? That's not a good reason. I can say that maybe on the higher levels 144hz will matter, but I've played on mobile, 60hz, and 144hz, and I can say the only time something was easier was going from mobile to PC.
If michigun can get #1 on phone, then you have no reason to complain.
No tl;dr because if you are going to argue, then might as well learn the facts. (Looking at you AncientAnubis)
Y3TI quote
Jul 30, 2016 0:52:04 GMT -5 @hiy3tigaming said:
Are we twins? I SWEAR I thought I was the only one on this forum who actually knew exactly what refresh rates and response times are! (Before I posted the definition in at least 5 posts :/). You sir, are one of the very few people who know way more than just a definition. We need more people like you here... But you forgot one crucial thing. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Y3ti Tech Tips.
Something else you need to know when picking your monitor that might not effect reflexes and timings, but will definitely effect you being able to pull something off. I'm talking a magical specification called... Input Delay!
So we learnt that Refresh Rate, measured in hertz or Hz (which is actually a measurement unit for electrical frequency, by the way) determines the amount of times a monitor refreshes to display a new frame from your graphics card if available (Ex: 60 Hz = Up to visually seeing 60 FPS, no matter how many FPS you get over 60)...
...and Response Time, measured in milliseconds, or ms (a time measurement unit, also known as 1/1000 of a second), determines how quickly each single pixel on the monitor (amount of pixels determined by resolution) can react to having to display a new colour, and how quickly it can show those changes in colour and shading. What about Input Delay, Y3ti? I didn't come here to TL;DR 2 huge paragraphs of you recapping what the OP said. Get on with it! Ok fine.
Input Delay, also measured in milliseconds/ms, determines how long it takes for a monitor to display a change manipulated by the signal of a peripheral, such as a mouse or keyboard. In easier terms, if your monitor has an input delay of 3ms, whenever you click, it will take 3ms for that click to show on the monitor.
You also wanna avoid screen tearing, in which 2 things help: higher refresh rates, or an adaptive sync, if any. My advice is that if you have an AMD GPU that supports FreeSync, get a monitor that supports it too, whereas if you have an NVIDIA GPU that supports G-Sync, you need a G-Sync monitor. Otherwise, V-Sync will do well enough.
FreeSync and G-Sync do the same thing. They don't take away FPS. They just show specific frames from all those FPS to sync with response time, input delay, and simply predictions and/or polling rates (Where peripherals, specifically mice rather than keyboards, refresh and inform the monitor and PC about its position, for more precision, measured in hertz/Hz).
V-Sync removes all FPS above the refresh rate, so if you have a 60 Hz monitor and 200 FPS, V-Sync completely wipes out the extra 140 FPS completely, so there's only 60 FPS. This is where it wouldn't be worth getting an expensive graphics card that will help you get 200 FPS, because anything above 60 won't exist with V-Sync.
Of course, screen size, and even bezel can affect how you yourself play. If you were playing on a 3" inch screen with a 5" bezel, it would be really hard to focus due to the tiny display, and those useless black bars caused by unidentical aspect ratios, or simply edges. But that's not what I'm talking about today.
Also, there is merely no difference in using a refresh rate higher than 60Hz on Geometry Dash, except for getting unnecessarily more FPS on a 2D game based on jumping and stuff, and a rather wrecked trail above 60 Hz. If you plan to get a monitor with a higher refresh rate than 60 solely for Geometry Dash, you're doing a huge mistake. If you plan to play games like COD, CSGO, LOL, or DOTA 2, and happen to play Geometry Dash, go ahead, as long as GD doesn't influence your decision.
Well that's all for today, folks! I hope you guys learnt something new, and this was helpful for you. If it was, leave a like on this post so I know this made you understand a thing or two. Other than that, hope you guys have a wonderful day!
Y3ti, out!
AlFas quote (quoting Y3TI)
Seriously now, I don't think anyone with that much experience on computer technology and stuff will manage to understand that. You also forgot to mention another point, it being the human eye and the brain. Which I am going to talk about.
Anyone subscribed to VSauce should know that the human eye catches very high FPS, it being up to 240FPS at some rare circumstances, though the brain is the translator to give the image FAILING on translating the signal into light and sight. 240FPS is WAY TOO MUCH for the brain to process causing heavy brain ache when watching anything at 240FPS and that is because there is TOO MUCH information to process especially when very rapid motions occur.
Now of course I don't say that the brain is incapable of high frame rates. In fact there are some tests that have been done in pilots to test their ability on spotting a dot in 1/144th of a second. That's what we call 144Hz for monitor refresh rate or 144FPS video frame rate. Now, sure they do spot it, but when there are 2 continuous frames in the 144FPS rate with different colors each time, the brain combines the colors. For example, if you are watching a 144FPS video with just a black screen and it turns into magenta and green within just 2 frames, your brain will understand that this is white. Yeah, that means not that big of a difference.
In 60FPS, perhaps the brain won't translate the example above as white because the amount of time between the two frames is enough for the brain to process the image. It works like V-sync that Y3ti said before.
So what does this have to do with GD? Well that is an example of the distinguishing between colors in high frame rate. As for motion, the brain does not catch it that much easily. You see, the brain may not understand the tiny motion in such a high frame rate because of the smoothness and it is easily blurred out if it is seen as a simple image. That means if you were to take a picture with your brain of a 144Hz monitor while playing GD, you would see some blur in the picture. A good example is to shake your hand in front of you very quickly and to understand the difference try capturing that with a slow-mo camera at 120FPS or even 240FPS!
Surv and whoever wants may have 144Hz monitors, but how many FPS do their brains get? And how many are analyzed completely? No one else knows except for themselves. And how much does it take them to react to the events and signals?
This is another factor that plays a cardinal role in these games. The reaction time. Mine is 16-17ms I hope (I HAVE TESTED IT OUT) when playing levels that I know by heard. This is what we are talking about here because I don't think anyone has beaten any 2.0 Demon first try (prima vista - first sight).
Surv and all those infamous 144Hz monitor players don't do any better than us 60Hz monitor players unless they are more skilled. 144Hz does NOT offer that much a difference. At 75Hz is what it is the ideal monitor for a Skill Demon, anything bigger than that refresh rate is USELESS to us humans, unless we are bionic.
So, I don't wanna see stupid people posting stuff about this without being aware of any kind of real-world physics, science and computer technology. They are just some goats as we say here in Greece, meaning that they just follow what ONE says and they are influenced TOO MUCH so that they become the same the person that influences them, or maybe even worse.
That's all I had to say, I'm NOT going to post ANYTHING else about this STUPID controversy that occurred because of an IMMATURE player with TOO MANY followers. ENOUGH with those BIG letters that EMPHASIZE on the BIG words, I'm just done.
Hope you really become smarter now, not because of me, but because of some knowledge and some maturity. I'm bored of seeing retards all over the place causing cancer, chaos and controversies, the 3 Cs that are not good on any game. Remember that
AlFas out.
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